Slight changes on the Dominion faction

[Anonymous]

posted on October 7th, 2011, 12:33 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on October 7th, 2011, 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

It seems that most people just stick to a single strategy or set of strategies.  Primarily because things are so expensive that deviating from a strategy that you know works may not be a good idea.  I suggest upping the mining rate multiplier for the Dilithium to a 12 (from 9) and the Tritanium up to 8 (from 6).  You wouldn't get a reduction in cost, but you would get enough income so that if you do any experiments, it won't cost you as much if the experiment fails.

EDIT:
Reduced Tritanium mining rate increase suggestion from 10 to 8 to maintain 3 Dilithium/2 Tritanium mining ratio.

Also suggest changing the starting resources to be 3 Dilithium/2 Tritanium/1 Supply.  Perhaps 2,100 Dilithium, 1,400 Tritanium and 700 Supply.

posted on October 7th, 2011, 1:04 pm

The dominion need so much work its crazy, i havnt even figured out how to cloak detect yet sometimes i just randomly see a ping coming from an s2, they have no cloaking raider counter nor a decent counter for lehevals...in fact come to think of it nothing counter those things they take MASSIVE ammounts of damage deal the same back repair and recloak its like having a massive fleet of dodes that can cloak, regenerate and destroy battleships.

posted on October 7th, 2011, 2:27 pm

Dom stationary cloak detect is any station with a ping (sensor station, perimeter or hyper space sensor)

Their mobile cloak detect is the most effective in the game as you can choose the exact moment to use it. While ventures and talons need more timing. You get a sensor station, then research its special. Then use/target that special near one of your ships and a blue ping will come from the nearest ship. The sensor station has enough energy for 2 uses.

Bombers hurt leahvals bad. And have a special for the finisher.

posted on October 7th, 2011, 5:56 pm

Dom stationary cloak detect is any station with a ping (sensor station, perimeter or hyper space sensor)

Their mobile cloak detect is the most effective in the game as you can choose the exact moment to use it. While ventures and talons need more timing. You get a sensor station, then research its special. Then use/target that special near one of your ships and a blue ping will come from the nearest ship. The sensor station has enough energy for 2 uses.

Bombers hurt leahvals bad. And have a special for the finisher.

Bomber do not counter leahvals as they do not take any reduced damage from them and even if you correct me and say they do they still do not last more than a couple of seconds and are dead, the bombers also miss more than 60-70-% of their shots, to fix this balance issue with the lehevals they need to be nerfed so not only do they not recharge SOOO much hull and shields with a single recharge but also so they do severyly reduced damage to certain ships because nothing early counters them effectively and from what iv seen they are effective at any point in a game.

posted on October 7th, 2011, 6:07 pm

Bombers do decent damage to the fragile leahvals, the problem is Leahvals can easily run away and cloak. Bombers can't since they are rather slow and have restricted firing arcs. Like most things of the Dominion they are glas cannons and have to reach mass production to become really strong. As Elim pointed out, it's not that easy to reach a decent amount of ships before others(esp. Feds) do. Imo the Dominion lacks some kind of tank ship. Klingons have the KBQ, the Vor'cha and a cloaking device to stay alive, Roms have auto repair/even faster cloak, Feds have high defense values. I'd like to see a Dominion that doesn't need a tank since it can easily throw away ships, right now this only works in late game. Therefore it could need some higher defense values as a short term solution. The Bug is already nice against Medium range, but it's the only thing they have and dies against everything else.

posted on October 7th, 2011, 6:29 pm

Bombers do decent damage to the fragile leahvals,

That was a funny quote. Even stuff that counters them doesnt do that much damage to them. Bombers do worse agaisnt lehevals than briels do vs dodes.

posted on October 7th, 2011, 7:09 pm

Bomber do not counter leahvals as they do not take any reduced damage from them and even if you correct me and say they do they still do not last more than a couple of seconds and are dead, the bombers also miss more than 60-70-% of their shots, to fix this balance issue with the lehevals they need to be nerfed so not only do they not recharge SOOO much hull and shields with a single recharge but also so they do severyly reduced damage to certain ships because nothing early counters them effectively and from what iv seen they are effective at any point in a game.

you have your raw facts very wrong. i have no idea where you get the figure that the bombers miss more than 60% - 70% of their shots.

leahval is medium size. bombers miss 20% of the time against them. the bomber has ftc doing 50% extra damage to short range (like the leahval). so in the end you take already large torpedo damage base, then multiply by 0.8 (for the 20% miss rate) and then by 1.5 (for the passive). getting a final value of damagebase*1.2. ie 20% extra damage above base, which is already pretty strong as its all torps.

plus you can do it from long range, and the bomber is only 10 speed units slower (about 7.5% slower) than a bomber. early on you can force them away before they get the kills they need to sustain leahval spam. later you can get the bomber special and ensure at least 1 kill per battle (like monsoon proximity torp).

bomber spam will absolutely flatten leahval spam.

also leahval spam doesnt cut it later game due to their woeful cost effectiveness. try leahval spam vs e2 spam, leahvals die to torps. in the early game things with torps are helpful, like sangs and susa. the feds are slightly more restricted here since their torp spammers get hurt by leahvals (intreps have adai, akiras medium range vs ssec, warpins are medium range or have adai mostly, the ambas is slightly weaker against short range). monsoon spam is their way of stopping leahvals, just pick off 1 leahval in each battle with proximity torp, then go defend your mining. as long as the fed can last into mid game, they can stop leahvals.

also the b8 makes a nice tank if you want to protect your bigger ships from some fire. works well with b5, especially since they can aid fighter swarms.

posted on October 7th, 2011, 7:16 pm

bomber spam will absolutely flatten leahval spam.

Nonsense absolute nonsense i wont even waste time arguing that iv seen enough games to to know it wont beat leheval spam, lehevals can raid the dom to death and lay waste to any bombers you have remaining and the sheer cost of the bombers in supply will certainly kill the dom player off, we went thorugh this with people claiming briels counter the dodes but they dont and thats been proven over and over because of the ammount needed to counter them a simple switch in vessels with the borg means the tripple yards you have spamming briels has destroyed your economy.

posted on October 7th, 2011, 7:30 pm

Nonsense absolute nonsense i wont even waste time arguing...

o rly? your post started with "im not gonna bother arguing". then what followed was you defending your point by arguing...

you couldn't resist even 1 second.

bombers cost less than s2s in dil/tri and sup. yet we easily see people make an s2 spam. dominion are very good at setting up spams. double yard bombers also gets you a yard at your expansion, so your mining losses will be less. once energy for meta d is gone it takes quite a few leahvals to kill a miner before it can get to a repair dock.

comparing bombers/leahvals to brels/dodes is a mistake.

brels are shorter range than dodes and dodes have torps that do improved damage to the small brels. the dodes also have the disabling effect.

bombers are longer range than leahvals and leahvals dont have any increased damage to bombers. they do base damage.

whats even more striking is that bombers are more than enough to take down leahvals. it was shown in a replay that breen cruisers can take down leahvals with the heavy torp spam. torp spam crushes the leahval. breen cruisers dont have a passive that helps, they rely solely on the base damage of their torps.

posted on October 7th, 2011, 8:21 pm

It seems that most people just stick to a single strategy or set of strategies.  Primarily because things are so expensive that deviating from a strategy that you know works may not be a good idea.  I suggest upping the mining rate multiplier for the Dilithium to a 12 (from 9) and the Tritanium up to 8 (from 6).  You wouldn't get a reduction in cost, but you would get enough income so that if you do any experiments, it won't cost you as much if the experiment fails.

EDIT:
Reduced Tritanium mining rate increase suggestion from 10 to 8 to maintain 3 Dilithium/2 Tritanium mining ratio.

Also suggest changing the starting resources to be 3 Dilithium/2 Tritanium/1 Supply.  Perhaps 2,100 Dilithium, 1,400 Tritanium and 700 Supply.

That won't have the effect you think it will, unfortunately. Someone who follows a more efficient strategy will just have more resources than you whatever the mining rates are, so you are just as likely to lose.

posted on October 7th, 2011, 8:26 pm

[...]the dodes also have the disabling effect.

Just wanted to point out that B'rels are not disabled by Dodecahedrons

posted on October 7th, 2011, 8:45 pm

Just wanted to point out that B'rels are not disabled by Dodecahedrons

according to the odf it still gets a chance to disable sensors. just a reduced chance.

but i agree with your general point, it doesnt disable the other systems, not that it really needs to, the damage it puts out is huge enough. about 70% increased. its a whole different world from leahvals on bombers.

posted on October 7th, 2011, 9:09 pm

Yeah, that's just a bug

posted on October 8th, 2011, 3:27 am

Bomber do not counter leahvals as they do not take any reduced damage from them and even if you correct me and say they do they still do not last more than a couple of seconds and are dead, the bombers also miss more than 60-70-% of their shots

  Sorry, but I have to correct you here.


  You're wrong.    Bombers counter Leahvals amazingly.  They don't miss 60-70% of the time - they miss 20%.  They do 150% total damage at long range and are CHEAP.  The cost difference between a Leahval and a Bomber is frightening.

  1 on 1 a Leahval will beat a bomber.  2 on 1 a Leahval may beat 2 Bombers.  If you're Dominion you should not be engaging like that or you will lose....  The races play differently but Bombers counter Leahvals.  That's just that .

posted on October 8th, 2011, 9:52 am

vessels that counter the dodecahedron are not immune to disabling, just a lot more resistant