S2 Spam

[funnystuffpictures]

posted on November 23rd, 2010, 6:57 pm

Last edited by funnystuffpictures on November 23rd, 2010, 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yes, they are countered by short ranged ships, but honestly, what good is that when you have 3:1 odds? I just came out of a game against Alpha Line, who spammed S2s, and got my butt kicked even though I was Mayson. By the time I had 1 intrepid, he had 3 S2s. By the time I had warpins, he had 8-10. He stopped me from expanding and killed off my main tritanium mining. The only way I stayed in the game was by setting up traps and keeping him distracted in every way I could while I expanded where I set up turrets. Even the "Over Powered" mayson turret was squashed like a bug against these fast, hard to kill craft. Finally, as the game progressed, we had several encounters and engagements where I had to retreat my intrepids against the S2s despite having an almost equal number that he had. Finally, I managed to win by warpins, pulse turrets, and luring him into traps. In order to beat him, I had to to have 4 expansions and 4 yards madly producing intrepids... So my question is, should the S2 be nerfed in some way so that their counters have more of an effect on them? Maybe a slightly increased build time, or slightly increased damage intake from short ranged vessels.

Also, think of the poor Borgs when you respond 

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AdmiralsLog S2 Pwns Intrepids....txt

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[Nuukov]

posted on November 23rd, 2010, 7:01 pm

Last edited by Nuukov on November 23rd, 2010, 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

True. But hard to kill? Nyet.
And still you won.

But I am not here to argue, because I agree

I would like them to have an increased build time, because as I said, I agree. People can get too many, too fast.




W00T! 300th post!

posted on November 23rd, 2010, 8:21 pm

The same thing happened to me . but I lost .

posted on November 23rd, 2010, 8:50 pm

It wasn't easy for me to win. Thank goodness he didn't see my expansion there for the longest time lol xD

posted on November 23rd, 2010, 8:52 pm

Yes, they are countered by short ranged ships, but honestly, what good is that when you have 3:1 odds? I just came out of a game against Alpha Line, who spammed S2s, and got my butt kicked even though I was Mayson. By the time I had 1 intrepid, he had 3 S2s. By the time I had warpins, he had 8-10. He stopped me from expanding and killed off my main tritanium mining. The only way I stayed in the game was by setting up traps and keeping him distracted in every way I could while I expanded where I set up turrets. Even the "Over Powered" mayson turret was squashed like a bug against these fast, hard to kill craft. Finally, as the game progressed, we had several encounters and engagements where I had to retreat my intrepids against the S2s despite having an almost equal number that he had. Finally, I managed to win by warpins, pulse turrets, and luring him into traps. In order to beat him, I had to to have 4 expansions and 4 yards madly producing intrepids... So my question is, should the S2 be nerfed in some way so that their counters have more of an effect on them? Maybe a slightly increased build time, or slightly increased damage intake from short ranged vessels.

Also, think of the poor Borgs when you respond 

In Soviet Russia, S-2 spam you!

posted on November 23rd, 2010, 9:26 pm

Oh jesus, that was a great game!

Thx again, Funny, I am so honoured that you played with me !!!

But unfortunately: I lost ...


But now to the topic:
Well u had only one Intrepid because u teched up to Warpins. And as far as I understand FlOps teching up to someting comes at the cost of lower ship production... (And: The Dominion has a low ship construction time in general; but the players has to choose one Prototype and switching to another is IMO very difficult; and: the Dominion has a hugh need of supply...)

So: i dunno, if the S2 spam is really overpowered. Maybe it is. But maybe Mal is right too: "I don't think you guys understand.  The feds are overpowered, the klingons are overpowered, the romulans are overpowered, the dominion are overpowered, and the borg are overpowered!"

Cya

posted on November 23rd, 2010, 9:41 pm

lol this isnt the first time s2 has been brought up. before it was just s2 pwns borg, now its s2 pwns everything.

spamming s2 is a faster strat, without much tech, just making loads of one ship type. going warpins leaves u vulnerable until the first warpin. if u had double yarded intreps from the start you would have done better. also u would have had a yard at one of your exps, which is better than a turret. even a mayson turret.

also if u had 4 exps you shouldnt have been quadruple spamming intpres. higher tech ships are more cost effective in general, in order to give an incentive to tech up.

posted on November 23rd, 2010, 10:54 pm

I teched to intrepids before teching to warpins. I decided to go for warpins after which did absolutely nothing to my ship production. And the point was that there was nothing I could do with 3:1 odds. I couldn't even run. Oh and it was a very good game and I was honored to play with you Alpha!

posted on November 24th, 2010, 1:13 am

Well frankly, Funny, Monsoon spam would have done MUCH better IMO against S-2 spam.  Especially Mayson Monsoons.  Intrepids are more expensive, don't have the awesome S-2 killing special the Monsoons have, will miss 40% of their torpedoes vs. S-2, and get hit 20% more frequently than Monsoons by the S-2 torpedo.

  I'm not gonna say that S-2 spam isn't very powerful, but if you're making a case against it by using not the best ships to stop it AND you end up winning ....  it's just not gonna come across very well 

posted on November 24th, 2010, 1:28 am

Oh noes!  Mayson almost didn't win in the end!  Nerf the S-2!

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on November 24th, 2010, 5:09 am

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on November 24th, 2010, 6:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Monsoons are not a great S2 counter, as they do less damage to short, but they do well enuff, and once you get proximity torpedo, them being just as fast as the S2s makes the Monsoon able to pwn as the Monsoons can run with no losses, but the S2 can't.

Warpins may be OP, but they do hav some weaknesses.
Select good features for warpin counter ships include:
a) small (Warpins hav torps, especially the Steamie and the powerful Torp Refit Nebula)
b) fast (warpins are slow, except for the combat-poor Steamie)
c) short-ranged (Galaxy and Ambassador passives, Galaxy is in over half of all warpins, no warpin ship has anti-short passives)
d) anti-long-range (E1 is long and it is the most common warpin ship)
e) torp/beam-armed (warpins are mostly large and medium sizes)
I wonder what ship has all those features?
You really should've gone for double yard.

posted on November 24th, 2010, 5:45 am

Monsoons are not a great S2 counter, as they do less damage to small, but once you get proximity torpedo, them being just as fast as the S2s makes the Monsoon able to pwn as the Monsoons can run with no losses, but the S2 can't. Intrepids are initially better against S2, but Monsoons will get the edge a little later.

Completely False.   How do monsoons do less damage to smalls?

No offense, Neb.  But you need to do some homework and crunch some numberz before making "just so" statements like this.  Monsoons are better than Intrepids at dealing with S-2.

You get points back for recommending double yarding, as you are right about that performing much better than a warp in rush.

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on November 24th, 2010, 5:48 am

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on November 24th, 2010, 5:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

Short-ranged, I sometimes get small and short-ranged mixed up because they both begin with s and short is almost a synonym for small. Also, few large ships seem to be short-ranged.

I do admit Intrepids might be worse even initially because of the torps I forgot to take into account, but Monsoons also have less defense than Intrepids, and especially less firepower for Risner (I'm talking about general Feds, even tho funny was Mayson.)
It's probably pretty damn close to both being just as effective up until the Monsoons get their special weapon.

[Anonymous]

posted on November 24th, 2010, 6:00 am

Last edited by Anonymous on November 24th, 2010, 6:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

Right, but my point is you're forgetting some crucial elements, which Boggz has already pointed out.

Sure, the Monsoon doesn't do as much extra damage from the S-2's weakness as the Intrepid does, but the fact that the Intrepid hits less and gets hit more often compared to the Monsoon more than make up for that fact.  What I am pointing out is that you're basing your argument on conjecture, and not on any kind of objective analysis.  When you do the analysis, the Monsoon clearly performs better than Intrepid.

Edit:  In regards to your edit.  Just from general feds, the monsoon is still better in terms of an edge to the S-2.  Just dive into the odfs yourself and once you do the research, you'll see why.  I'm not trying to be hard on you or anything, it's just important to do that research.  The reason why we get all the "Eggs and Ham are Overpowered" threads is because of a lack of testing/research into the damage calculations.  I'd love to see more people actually researching first, as we'd see a lot less complaining on things.

posted on November 24th, 2010, 9:03 am

if u didnt go for sfc u could have made a second yard at your exp, and had stronger numbers. Double yarding for feds is a strong strat.

i agree with boggz and mal, the mons would have worked better.

as boggz pointed out u still won.