Romulan game balance

posted on May 1st, 2011, 6:42 am

A game with equally good players as Rom is indeed not easy. All comes down to micro out ships at your best and to find the right opportunities for attacks. If you can take down single or small groups of ships you are fine. If you always encounter bulk fleets then things become much more difficult.

In the last games I had I tried some new things with Roms...flexible exps i.e. right before the enemy goes in to take your first exp down (which is likely) you start to build a second one preferably in the opposite side of the map...this strat you keep doing until you find good opportunities for raids. While crossing the whole map many ppl will not move their fleet at the same speed. And this is when you strike.
The second thing is the clever use of Transmitters and a few turrets. They seem to work quite well against SR ships especially with LR weaknesses. And the Transmitter can recharge your Leavhals and rhienns quite fast.even in cloaked state while you lay an ambush.

But as I said. If you are not able to micro out ships well in the beginning you will likely lose. Especially if you cant micro out Leavhals. And Leavhals are for almost any strat important imo.

posted on May 1st, 2011, 9:30 am

I messed around with rom vs borg against the AI, just looking to see how well the roms fared, and learned a couple things.

First, a fleet of 2 Leahval, 3 Generix, 1 Shrike, and a Cehlear turned a sphere into so much space debris, and did it fast.  That same fleet ended up being all double gold from the horrible things they did.  They ended up the core of the Imperial Fleet.  It got uglier after I researched Disruptor Bombardment, which made certain that ships couldn't retreat unless I let them, and that's assuming I didn't open with it in the first place.

I learned from that one simple rule.  A mixed fleet, including a warbird or two, is far, far superior to any other layout.  (Also that the Cehlear continues to rock the house, I love that bird.)

I also learned that apparantly proper rommie tactics call for an engagement time of 10 seconds.  Kill what you can in that time, then cloak and leave.  Come back in a little bit, somewhere else, and do it all over again.  This is based upon many rommie specials lasting for 10 seconds.  The moment they drop, your firepower should be starting to wane.  So leave.  Dont' give them the brawl they want.  In the beginning, you really do have the superior firepower, so keep it that way.

When you build defense platforms, build them in groups of three, and upgrade them to projectile.  They work better that way.

Don't ignore the birds.  The birds are a big deal.  Norexan is not the be-all/end-all, though.  Mixed fleet is still key.  Got a fleet of 3 leahval, 3 generix, and a couple Rhienn?  It could use a Cehlear *and* a Norexan.  Or maybe a Norezan and a D'deridex.  Or some other pair of birds, but keep it mixed.  Really pays off with the rommies, and makes it really hard to counter their firepower.

Also, Cehlear are the key in my book to fighting the Borg.  So get them quickly.  Strong beams, and a special that will even put a cube on ice.  If your micro is strong, they're easily some of the most powerful ships out there, working in concert to cripple a fleet, or to single out a cube and prevent it from escaping or even fighting back while a romulan fleet destroys that ultra-expensive ship.

posted on May 1st, 2011, 9:34 am

To be honest...AI games prove almost nothing compared to PvP games. Humans act absolutly different than the AI and any strat valid to the AI can be useless in PvP games.

posted on May 1st, 2011, 3:48 pm

It's true that disruptor bombardment is a gem of awesomeness..

But one problem I've been having more and more lately is when I cloak out a group of ships but one of them isn't able to cloak and keeps taking fire, my other ships will often decloak to try to defend it.  This would be considered a bug, and happens evenly across ship types (I think)

The Teutoburg bug has me wondering if this only happens on slower machines like mine, or something like that.  Has anybody else noticed their ships decloaking on their own right after you cloak them?

posted on May 1st, 2011, 4:01 pm

It's true that disruptor bombardment is a gem of awesomeness..

But one problem I've been having more and more lately is when I cloak out a group of ships but one of them isn't able to cloak and keeps taking fire, my other ships will often decloak to try to defend it.  This would be considered a bug, and happens evenly across ship types (I think)

The Teutoburg bug has me wondering if this only happens on slower machines like mine, or something like that.  Has anybody else noticed their ships decloaking on their own right after you cloak them?

I've seen others claim it only happens if you have cloaked ships sitting still and a nearby uncloaked vessel is attacked. That said, I've had it happen while moving. The only thing I can suggest until this is fixed via patch, is if you're cloaking out of a fight, make sure ALL your ships are able to cloak out at the exact moment. If you have any latecomers that decloaked after the rest , get them away from your other ships before you cloak anyone out.

Of course, why this doesn't happen with single cloaked ships when an uncloaked fleet is fighting, or cloaked ships guarding an exp, is beyond me. Maybe it goes back to that green movement bug Tok'ra is always screaming about.

posted on May 2nd, 2011, 6:35 pm

To be honest...AI games prove almost nothing compared to PvP games. Humans act absolutly different than the AI and any strat valid to the AI can be useless in PvP games.

While that is true in general, AI built ships are still ships.  You can learn quite a bit about what can destroy what still.  And that was the key to my test.

posted on May 2nd, 2011, 6:48 pm

While that is true in general, AI built ships are still ships.  You can learn quite a bit about what can destroy what still.  And that was the key to my test.

No, not really no.

The ai spam ships of all types so figuring out counters is quite impossible in AI games, most just spam the most powerful ships they can get and try to over welm the AI and that also screws up any chance of using the same strat vs a human player because you would just die, the ai will find the closest expansion and keep attacking it, a human will attack your weakest point.

If you want to figure out counters you need to play humans not AI.

posted on May 2nd, 2011, 7:37 pm

Getting this thread righted before it gets derailed, I agree with Mal on esentially every point.

Early rush from borg is the bane of romulans right now  . The first game I played with this patch (Clint made a replay of it; it should be up pretty soon) I really underestimated my opponent's agressiveness, and my ally wasn't paying attention . I got scube'd to death really fast, and by the big decisive battle I only had 5 gens left because the dodes ate my phase-plated rhienns and I didn't have enough tri to get the gen's special .

I believe that the general consensus so far is that the Borg can really eat the romulans before they have enough ships to effectively defend. You have a single periph scube and EM scube (or is it probe?), and the Romulan's ability to defend in early game is effectively nullified if you're Helev. You don't have any counters for their ships, your main asset is nullified, and your miners are so flimsy that they're just cannon fodder (good thing Borg ships don't rank  )

posted on May 3rd, 2011, 4:11 am

No, not really no.

The ai spam ships of all types so figuring out counters is quite impossible in AI games, most just spam the most powerful ships they can get and try to over welm the AI and that also screws up any chance of using the same strat vs a human player because you would just die, the ai will find the closest expansion and keep attacking it, a human will attack your weakest point.

If you want to figure out counters you need to play humans not AI.

I'm not talking about strat counters.  I'm talking counters like ADAI and such.  There were complaints that romulan ships weren't up to the job, thus, my test to see if the ships themselves were a problem.  As for strats, frankly, I could barely care at all.  Even on the rare occasion I do play online, I hate build orders, 'clicks per second' and the things that come with them.  Not fun for me, when success is measured in a single second's reaction time.

The ships themselves, however, vs borg ships, seem to hold up fine and dandy provided that you observe the 10 second romulan rule.

posted on May 3rd, 2011, 7:43 am

Or, pick the fight on your terms, and you can stay in far longer than 10 seconds.

posted on May 3rd, 2011, 6:42 pm

Actually 10 seconds sounds about right for a Romulan ship to live against an enemy force of equal cost and tech.  After that it's time to cloak and run.  If you can stay in battle longer than that, it's because you're engaging a fleet that's much smaller than yours.  The problem is the mid-late game when conflict is unavoidable whether you can cloak or not.

posted on May 8th, 2011, 9:35 am

and exactly in mid game you get e.g. rolled by the fed which get ships for free...taking out mining is no thing against feds as it seems...

posted on May 8th, 2011, 9:40 am

and exactly in mid game you get e.g. rolled by the fed which get ships for free...taking out mining is no thing against feds as it seems...

taking mining from feds counts, just a bit less than it does for other races, since they can use warpin to defend while they set up mining again. their buildable ships dont break the bank either, even chassis 1 ships can be of help if things get hairy, so teching down works well. feds are certainly harder to keep down, but you can do it.

i have found that since this patch the romulans can get a good fleet going and roll like the feds. gens, leahvals, griffins etc. the leahvals get auto targeted but have auto repair to survive, while the more fragile gens fire their heavy weapons. replace leahvals with rhienns to tank short range with phase plates. i think the romulan mixed fleets are very good and enough ships can be kept alive to get a roll going.

posted on May 8th, 2011, 9:59 am

Not against equally good Fedplayers. There are certain strategies that are almost not beatable unless the Fed makes a major mistake. Mostly Warpins are included. And btw. the Generix does not counter the Warpins as proved many times. Best bet is the Leavhal... but gainst a defensive Mayson it is very very though. And it its is more difficult for one player than the other something is not balanced...no matter what Dom calculates...

posted on May 8th, 2011, 10:15 am

Not against equally good Fedplayers. There are certain strategies that are almost not beatable unless the Fed makes a major mistake. Mostly Warpins are included. And btw. the Generix does not counter the Warpins as proved many times. Best bet is the Leavhal... but gainst a defensive Mayson it is very very though. And it its is more difficult for one player than the other something is not balanced...no matter what Dom calculates...

i disagree with you on all of this. feds arent "almost not beatable unless they make a major mistake"

and a gen leahval mix against warpins is a good thing, it allows constant production, leahvals are expensive and not very cost effective, and keeping non stop production of leahvals isnt easy. you cant afford to lose leahvals, which is unavoidable if the enemy has a few monsoons with proximity torp, as they will get at least 1 kill. mixing the gens in is helpful, leahvals get auto targeted, then can use auto repair to stay alive, while the more fragile torp attracting gens will have longer to shoot their torps, which hit warpins a lot.