Romulan game balance

[Nuukov]

posted on April 30th, 2011, 10:54 am

Last edited by Nuukov on April 30th, 2011, 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

I'm living in the alternate reality where after every single patch, people complain about the balance before even a week has transpired, passing judgement without thinking things through.  Do you know why certain people are losing games?  It's because their pet strategy was taken away from them.  It was easy to just spam teh generix, because you really didn't have to think about what you were doing and really didn't have to try.  You forced the other player to work around what you were doing, and it wasn't as easy for some races.

I'm living in the same alternate reality that Dom, Clintsat, Boggz, and a host of other folks are living in because we understand that going with research institute ships could do the same job, and can now do that job better, because ships were added to that tech route, not taken away.

I'm living in the same alternate reality where NeroDan goes, "Hey, I'm trying to figure out the romulans" and we say, "Don't spam teh generix", and then he says, "Hey, I'm figuring it out!!!" , and we say, "Hurray!"

Again, it's not about "skilled players pulling something fancy", but about some players only going the easy route and not willing to try something new.  There are entire replays average joe players just having a good time using strategies other than generix spam and doing very well with it.  None of these strategies have changed.

I'm not trying to be too antagonistic my friend , as I know this kind of stuff is serious business, but I have good reasons for why I say what I do, and my ideas are not mine alone.

Very true Mal.

Just from what I see (not complaining ) is that Borg can seem to get ships quick enough to then rush at the Romulan and kill him before the Romulan has enough ships to defend. Now what puzzles me is that in the last patch and before etc, the Borg could get the same amount of ships (2 incep scube 2 probe) than he could this patch. And now with the Romulan, he can now get the same ships than he could before, AND get a Generix that does not even need a station! PLUS it is torpedo based, and we all know torps are the bane of the Borg. So what I don't get it how this is a problem now, and in the past the Borg could do the exact same in previous patches, and the Romulan would have less defense against it.

I did watch a Rom vs Borg (Boggz vs Arash), and since Arash did not rush the Rom, the Rom could build up enough ships and tech, so in the end to beat Arash.

So it seems that, if the Borg rushes the Rom, the Rom is pointy eared toast. But if the Borg does not rush, it makes it more of an even match.

Now not condradicting myself from when I agreed with Mal - it has only been a week, and this assumption might be a bit premature - but this is simply from my observation.

But the hard thing for me is that Borg and Rom are my favorite races, so yes I want Rom to be able to defend against early rushes before they can get their sneaky raiding business on - - but yet I don't want the Borg to be nerfed for this to be achieved.

posted on April 30th, 2011, 1:57 pm

In 2v2, 3v3, etc... Romulan are not no longer tankers (excluding rhienns).  You can't/shouldn't just slug it out in a big battle.  It's not what the Romulans do.  You pick your battles and engage where you can cloak your expensive ships out.  if you do that enough, you will have a large enough advantage to win that final, decisive battle.  It's hard to adjust the play style accordingly.  I'm not going to lie and say I've adjusted easily.  You just have to remember that most of the races play a little differently.

posted on April 30th, 2011, 5:42 pm

In 2v2 and 3v3 yes, but in 1v1 rom is kinda screwed against Borg if the Borg rushes. If not then it's even about.

posted on April 30th, 2011, 5:58 pm

I'll confess that I too have had a really hard time learning how to repel an early Borg rush as Romulans.  Even though Generix / Leahvals can really easily outclass those early Borg ships, but you're still gonna lose miners to a determined attack or especially a split attack.  Even if they can't kill your ships they will very likely still kill some miners.

  Play around a bit and try new stuff .  I've found that Rhienns with phase work remarkably well against the split attacks.  A split Borg fleet means less firepower in one spot.  Less firepower means less chance they can kill your ships before you cloak .

posted on April 30th, 2011, 9:59 pm

After playing a bit more, I need to amend my previous statements.

First, the Spectre refit is good.  I didn't see that projectile weapons are now based on beams instead of pulses (sorta).  Also, I was sure I saw the shield research at the Tal'shiar academy in 3.20 but now it's at the research institute, which is much better as well.  I do have a suggestion for this though: either reduce the rate of fire and increase the damage of regular generix torpedoes, or reduce their sprite size.  They're cool to look at, but it feels wrong that the tiny projectiles fired by the spectre do more damage than the big balls of light fired by the generix.

In this way, standard generix finally fill a useful role for me, I think the way they were intended to before.  I build one or two in the beginning to back up my rhienn/leahvals and if I choose not to refit them, that's okay.  I think this same good effect could have been achieved with the old generix if the Tal'shiar requirement was taken away, but this one has more flavor and an excellent model.

However, the current setup renders the Tal'shiar academy useless for anything besides Norexans.  It's too expensive for what it provides.  Also, until generix supports come back the Romulans are limited to a single support ship, which becomes their only option against intrepids.  Better start practicing my leahval skills again.

posted on April 30th, 2011, 10:21 pm

However, the current setup renders the Tal'shiar academy useless for anything besides Norexans.  It's too expensive for what it provides.  Also, until generix supports come back the Romulans are limited to a single support ship, which becomes their only option against intrepids.  Better start practicing my leahval skills again.

Totally correct.  Basically, the Romulans aren't done.  They wanted to introduce the new generix, but didn't have time to include all the other goodies.  There's basically one way to tech now:  Going research institute.  I'm sure next patch they'll introduce all those other ships and the romulans will be super amazing.

posted on April 30th, 2011, 10:26 pm

Certainly seems that way .

  In the meantime all the Rommie players can enjoy the SUPER flexibility of basically having only 1 line in their tech tree .

posted on May 1st, 2011, 12:31 am

Also remember that leahvals are super good against early borg ships, you don't have to use generix at all because leahvals with meta d can take down scubes very quickly. That has just been my experience with it. While you might be limited in the beginning, if you survive you can ready do a lot of damage to a borg player 

posted on May 1st, 2011, 12:46 am

aye, we are aware of the issues with the Tal'Shiar academy. But once the generix jumps back in (the next refit is almost finished now and should arrive soon), we will finalize the rest of the Romulan pre-redo phase, which should yield some new strategic choices for going the tal'shiar way But, at the end of the day, the Romulan techtree will remain relatively short and simple. They will get other things to care for

posted on May 1st, 2011, 12:58 am

you forgot the [sup]tm[/sup]

posted on May 1st, 2011, 2:45 am

I think the roms are, mostly, better than before.

Not to say there are not issues.

Personaly, I think the big D should figure more heavily in the strats, along with other warbirds, than is the case now.

posted on May 1st, 2011, 3:38 am

Sigh...Mal, you're as stubborn as your namesake.

I do want to throw in with Tokra regarding the Warbirds. They are beautiful, powerful vessels, and useful in their own right. That said, it's very rare to have a game in which a Romulan can build a Warbird Yard, and even when they can, it's difficult to use Warbirds successfully due to their outrageous costs and heavily specialized natures. 

This isn't to say I expect cheap, fast-building Warbirds, but I would like to see the cost and stats reduced to a point where the Warbirds become more viable to use, without being overpowering assault vessels.

posted on May 1st, 2011, 3:48 am

...Mal, you're as stubborn as your namesake.

You wouldn't have it any other way.

posted on May 1st, 2011, 4:30 am

hmmmm im with prim and tokra perhaps a very very small change could be made to something to encourage more people to build some Warbirds,  as i dont ofter see the famous romulan Warbirds in many games. a romulan player has to spend his money in the most cost affective way possible  as there ships do cost a bit. so if there is a better option for a romulan player other then the Warbird ....then thats the ship they build.

posted on May 1st, 2011, 5:15 am

Well, I've been playing with the Romulans for a few days now, doing a variety of games online. 1v1, 2v2, etc, and I find it extremely difficult to survive if you are in a team game, getting focused down. In 1v1, if you can get harassment going early on against their mining, theyre fine, but if the game stretches out, you'll be outproduced and summarily crushed.

The specter is a very nice ship, that is annoyingly difficult to get to quickly in order to deal with say, Klingon Field Yard spam, which I know people will say Leavhels will counter, and they do, but you have to be amazing at micromanaging them to ensure that none of your extremely expensive ships dies.

Also having a hard time trying to fend off harassment on my mining of any sort, and if they manage to kill your miners, even one of them, it can halt your ship production and put you dangerously behind in game. I thought that forcing your enemy on the defensive would be enough to let you amass, but it doesn't seem to work out most of the time. This is in 2v2+ games, not 1v1, only time I had trouble putting someone on the defensive was when I faced a Klingon who hit my mining at the exact time I hit theirs.

I've been away from the game for a very long time, so I may not be grasping concepts that are considered basic to the current community, but I personally find the Romulans to be very, very difficult to play correctly. They remind me of the Protoss, powerful, expensive units, but god help you if you lose your econ.