Overpowered Units and Abilities in 3.1.1

posted on March 14th, 2010, 3:07 pm

  I though to give a hand to developers and let them know players opinions on what ships and abilities are overpowered and need adjustments. I know, there are a few separate threads about certain ships, but I think we need a thread just for that. So, please leave your opinions and help developers. Thank you.

PS: please ignore my signature

posted on March 14th, 2010, 7:26 pm

Hahaha well I think the Devs are aware now of what the Online community has come up with in regards to OP ships.


  Basically the biggest thing affecting balance right now is the actual percentage of damage reductions/increases from passives.  Most importantly are the several medium range passives that have no drawback like Single Stage Energy Conduits and a few units with Autonomous Defense AI (Leahval / Intrepid / Kvort / Breen).  They are the single biggest balance throwers right now but I'm quite Optec is aware .


  Other than that I would say the Rommie cost structure is next, but Optec has already stated that there was a calculation error that caused the Rommie ships to be too expensive. 


  Thus, hopefully he's aware of what needs to be changed and 3.1.2 will be right around the corner!

posted on March 14th, 2010, 7:48 pm

Hmm, i dont really like all of this overpowerd talk, i feel like while some of it may be true, alot of it is somone just got beaten to many times by somone who just knew how to use there race to beat the other,

im afraid that in the next patches everything is just gonna get way dumbded down, i mean all this talk about mayson, making the warp in cost somthing or supplies, well you cant just take away that without adding somthing somewhere else, if the balancing formulas say there balancend then maybye they actually are,

a question tho, if the balance forumlas say ballance, so a ship has power taken away, then shouldnt other ships on that race have power added?

im just afraid that all these races are just going to loose any of there edge, i mean i know how everyone complains about mayson on an ongoing basis, but i played somone as borg and they wernt new or anything and i bet them, it was a hard fought battle but i beat them,

now i also played a battle as borg against somone else, who did the early warp in, and did it raise a few, thats kinda cheap doubts in my mind? yeah it did, i didnt neccesarily think it was over powerd, maybye just make it so i needs both the enginerring and science, to be built, but dont make it cost more, or ships cost money, that alters it to much,

i think any alterations, should not be dramatic, just little tweaks,

posted on March 14th, 2010, 8:07 pm

Ray, periods go at the end of sentences, not commas.

You're right though.  There are people who get beat once and think there's a problem, and then there are those of us who have come to certain conclusions after two months of vigorous testing and comparison between the 5 factions.  Those of us who have done this can say with confidence what is balanced or isn't balanced, because we are capable of playing all 5 factions equally and over time can begin to see the inconsistencies between them.

Like Boggz has said, the developers know, and a lot of the videos that yandonman makes can more easily demonstrate when something is too powerful than simply writing about it.  So cheer up!  The factions will be balanced.  That's what you want, isn't it?

posted on March 14th, 2010, 9:10 pm

thats part of it to.

I saw some of those videos, risner vs mayson, and i sure hope thats not your guyses basis for mayson being overpowerd, you cant make conclusions that mayson is overpowerd, when risner is in the same race

posted on March 14th, 2010, 9:34 pm

For some reason I just feel like saying the Sovereigns are over powered!!! 

posted on March 14th, 2010, 10:16 pm

If you'd like, we can play some games.  I'll play Mayson and do an early warp-in rush, while you play Risner.  This way you can show me how Risner is supposed to defend against Mayson.  We can go from there and you can play any race you like and show my how all of these races should face an individual using warp in rushes, Norway spam, and Excelsior-II spam.

posted on March 14th, 2010, 10:44 pm

thats part of it to.

I saw some of those videos, risner vs mayson, and i sure hope thats not your guyses basis for mayson being overpowerd, you cant make conclusions that mayson is overpowerd, when risner is in the same race

  Like Mal said, before YOU jump to conclusions about US jumping to conclusions, perhaps you should play a few more games online.  You say that:

"you cant make conclusions that mayson is overpowerd, when risner is in the same race"

...but I disagree.  Risner and Taq'roja are right behind Mayson in terms of overall strength right now.  Feds are a powerful faction and we all know that (as they should be ), but to see that there is NO way for Risner to beat Mayson 1 v 1 is ABSOLUTELY a conclusion to be drawn.  That's how you come up with conclusions , testing!

    Mal, Dominus, Mort, Star, and myself play a lot of games online and have all become quite skilled.  We are all for making sure things stay balanced and do our best to ensure that no one is crying foul just because they lost .  Also, considering you just started playing online, Ray, you might give it a bit more time before you tell us that we're wrong about our proposed balance changes.  I think it would be hard for you to have a grasp on Mayson's online strength when no one is allowed to play him .

posted on March 15th, 2010, 5:12 am

well if i played mayson almost anyone could beat me but thats beside the point because i never play anymore. (too busy)

posted on March 15th, 2010, 12:28 pm

@ Boggz

In rays defense, you might want to give him a little slack.  Hes been gone for a while, and he prally hasn't play'd many games of late.  He has, however been here wayy longer than you, so you shouldn't treat him like a "good little noob", hes just not up to date with his facts...and hes a fed lover, so everything he says will be biast for them. The feds will never be strong enough for ray

posted on March 15th, 2010, 12:40 pm

For some reason I just feel like saying the Sovereigns are over powered!!! 

you joking, they are waaay under powered.

I want a sovvie that can solo a borg cube 

posted on March 15th, 2010, 1:03 pm

I'm with Ray on avoiding jumping the gun at "Overpowered Units and Abilities".

Strategy balance is a strange thing and is actually all about margins of error, strategies considered overpowered are the hardest to screw up, while often not being the most powerful when executed properly or perfectly.

Good players often play these low-fat strategies so it's understandable that they have the views they do. But the unfortunate fact is that sometimes strategies become too safe or too easy to do, as Mayson appears to have.


Inherently, though, balance is always going to be suspect when 2 of the 5 starting races have a huge advantage through cloaking. Knowledge is power in RTS games and cross-balancing a game is incredibly difficult when the factions/races don't mirror each other.

Overpowered units and abilities generally spring up in response to something which is already broken, you'll continually get issues until you fix the source which, in this case, I think is the cloak ability of the Klingons especially, and the Romulans when not underpowered.


I also agree that the races could end up losing their edge, but this is down to the fact that teching in FleetOps has little value due to blobbing/zerging/spamming - whatever you want to call it.

Because the tech tree is limited due to poor balance, balance issues appear more of an issue. Units don't have impact, currently it's a case of steadily upgrading your fleet with better ships which virtually destroys the ability to vary play (booming tech over rushing, for example) and makes the most aggressive player, with the most attacking race, the winner unless operating under the band-aid rules which had to be invented to take the game away from Destroyer spamming, which has always been too effective.

It also creates a vicious slippery slope which makes it almost impossible to recover from a defeat earlier in the game, whoever wins the first major engagement wins the match.




I agree there are serious issues, but don't agree with fixing symptoms of the issue. Fix the races before you try to fix the units, otherwise balance is used to fix imbalance, and your "Overpowered Units and Abilities" are born.

Feel free to disagree, I'd like to hear varied opinions.. but I think the problem sits with cloaking at the moment.

posted on March 15th, 2010, 1:16 pm

Do I smell a whiney Fedrat?

Most powerful Avatars: Mayson first and foremost, and more evenly tied, Taq'Roja and Risner.

Most powerful faction: Federation by a wide margin.

I don't see cloaking presenting an imbalance, I see a strong bias towards making Federation the top dog of the game.

True balance in the game would mean that no avatar is particularly powerful. That means that the Federation as a whole has to be NERFED. Or the other races strengthened. It's that simple.

posted on March 15th, 2010, 1:50 pm

No, not a fanboy. Don't worry.


Cloaking breeds imbalance because of what it forces. Klingon and Romulan players can send scouts directly to an opposing base, allowing them to see what is being constructed and also allowing them to see where opposing, non-cloakable forces are. This allows them to tech to the ideal counter, or be prepared for what they know is coming. Seeing as knowledge is power, it's a massive advantage to have and almost guarantees victory on a strategic level (if possible).

Furthermore it allows harassment (rushing) of moons and exposed structures, as enemy fleets can be followed around to track them and a largely unstoppable hit and run game-style can take place.


Because cloaking is available from the start, it dictates play from the start. Non-cloaking race tech has to lean in the direction of cloak detection, limiting strategic options as valuable resources have to be sunk into countering a FREE ability. This gives the Klingons and Romulans a greater on-field (or in-space, if you like) presence.


Once this occurs, and it already has, units are buffed here and nerfed there in order to try and right the initial imbalance cloaking brings.


Balance is unfortunately far from simple, changes in the early game have a cascading effect which dictates right until the end (in the same way that the earliest battles are the most important and defining).

The Federation are overpowered, but because of cloaking. The same way that, ironically, the Romulans are underpowered because of cloaking.


Cloaking isn't overpowered, but free cloaking is a broken mechanic and, so early in the game, it's fatal. Because everything that comes afterwards has to be balanced against cloak or something that cloak causes.

Solution? Make cloak researchable for the Klingons and Romulans, so it becomes a teching option, rather than an inherent ability. If the races start equal, it's easier to keep them that way.

[Anonymous]

posted on March 15th, 2010, 2:16 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on March 15th, 2010, 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

  Personally, I don't think cloaking is imbalanced. In fact, I know none who complained about this ability. Romulan ships are more expensive to balance the ability to cloak which, if not handled with care, can be more dangerous for cloaking race. Do not forget that cloaked ships have shields offline. A well placed dominion artillery strike can destroy an entire armada of romulan cloaked battleships. The best way to see if cloaking is OP or not is to play online. Ironically, the race with the ability to cloak even the miners is, in 3.1.1, one of the weakest races.