Less used Klingon Battle Yard vessel?
posted on December 16th, 2009, 11:51 pm
posted on December 17th, 2009, 12:00 am
Last edited by Dominus_Noctis on December 17th, 2009, 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tried and true for as long as version 3 has been out - not paper I'm afraid :blush:
If the B'rel rush fails badly (meaning that you've let at least 6-7 Rhienns survive and you've lost ALL your B'rels... which ends up being about 15 total), and you are playing a competent player there are only a couple "alternatives" that can grant you enough time to tech up slightly and possibly defeat the soon-to-be arriving Griffins.
A few K't'ingas and B'rels from TaQ'roja harassing miners at each expansion work to stave off attacks fairly well and are quite cheap, and building a turret or two will become a necessity because you won't be able to protect your mining. If you've let the Rhienns do so nicely, indeed building K'beajQ does work ok (only as TaQ really, because of the increased damage from the special), but usually only in conjunction with other units or turrets because the unit takes a really long time to build.
If you don't use them with support it becomes very painful, as either the Romulan player can continue building Rhienns and thereby kite those K'beajQ immediately, or just build Griffins and paste them quickly with Sensor Jammer support.
Fast building K'vort support can do ok because of the pulses and the fact that the Rhienns can't give as much with the Kaleh maneuver also assuming you can get them in range by decloaking on top... . However, the failure of this strategy against Romulans is one of the reasons that I have believed that the Klingons were less than balanced against certain other FO factions. Seems that will change soon though
Sang' spam against a non AI competent Romulan player early game will just be next to impossible as you will never be able to kill those Rhienns as they can cloak and get away while the torps miss and miss again. Look in the Kling vs Kling match that Mort and I had if you want to see how ineffective Sang' vessels are against destroyers.
EDIT: Cloaked K'vort support with some K'beajQ as well (until the Talon refits arrive - then you are screwed no matter what you do at this point)... as a guard for your expansions, rather than an offensive force sadly.
If the B'rel rush fails badly (meaning that you've let at least 6-7 Rhienns survive and you've lost ALL your B'rels... which ends up being about 15 total), and you are playing a competent player there are only a couple "alternatives" that can grant you enough time to tech up slightly and possibly defeat the soon-to-be arriving Griffins.
A few K't'ingas and B'rels from TaQ'roja harassing miners at each expansion work to stave off attacks fairly well and are quite cheap, and building a turret or two will become a necessity because you won't be able to protect your mining. If you've let the Rhienns do so nicely, indeed building K'beajQ does work ok (only as TaQ really, because of the increased damage from the special), but usually only in conjunction with other units or turrets because the unit takes a really long time to build.
If you don't use them with support it becomes very painful, as either the Romulan player can continue building Rhienns and thereby kite those K'beajQ immediately, or just build Griffins and paste them quickly with Sensor Jammer support.
Fast building K'vort support can do ok because of the pulses and the fact that the Rhienns can't give as much with the Kaleh maneuver also assuming you can get them in range by decloaking on top... . However, the failure of this strategy against Romulans is one of the reasons that I have believed that the Klingons were less than balanced against certain other FO factions. Seems that will change soon though
Sang' spam against a non AI competent Romulan player early game will just be next to impossible as you will never be able to kill those Rhienns as they can cloak and get away while the torps miss and miss again. Look in the Kling vs Kling match that Mort and I had if you want to see how ineffective Sang' vessels are against destroyers.
EDIT: Cloaked K'vort support with some K'beajQ as well (until the Talon refits arrive - then you are screwed no matter what you do at this point)... as a guard for your expansions, rather than an offensive force sadly.
posted on December 17th, 2009, 12:07 am
It's only once they level up do they become the lean, mean killing machines to all vessel types. 
posted on December 17th, 2009, 12:10 am
Indeed: similar to those blasted veteran Akiras and their AoE hull killing awesomeness 
posted on December 17th, 2009, 12:11 am
Last edited by Boggz on December 17th, 2009, 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Well Captain I still don't actually see a different strategy in there. With all due respect, of course
Turrets, yes. Protecting the mining is vital to not losing your resources completely, but I feel that Kvort's will be a mistake. Slower, shorter ranged, with only slightly better defensive stats and inferior subsystem hp. I mean sure, maybe they'll do alright but I feel they are much more likely to be kited than the KbeajQ are.
I think we should assume that by the time the Rhienn's have control cloak is essentially out as an option for the Klingons. Kvort's (against a decent player) will never be allowed within range and the Rhienn's could easily split up to keep some pulse's trained on the Kvorts chasing the Rhienn's that flee. Kbeajq enjoy the 360 arc as well as the added firepower of their specials. The Martok Drone does 40 damage while the Heavy Disruptor does 48 against Destroyers. Either is plenty to swat a Rhienn away - at least 1 per engagement.
Am I hearing correctly that you are suggesting Kvorts as a counter?
EDIT: Ok I saw your own edit. I agree that Kvorts and KbeajQ could be mixed well together, and also that if you lose the opening engagement and Talons get refitted you're screwed, but I feel KbeajQ primarily are your only hope.
Turrets, yes. Protecting the mining is vital to not losing your resources completely, but I feel that Kvort's will be a mistake. Slower, shorter ranged, with only slightly better defensive stats and inferior subsystem hp. I mean sure, maybe they'll do alright but I feel they are much more likely to be kited than the KbeajQ are.
I think we should assume that by the time the Rhienn's have control cloak is essentially out as an option for the Klingons. Kvort's (against a decent player) will never be allowed within range and the Rhienn's could easily split up to keep some pulse's trained on the Kvorts chasing the Rhienn's that flee. Kbeajq enjoy the 360 arc as well as the added firepower of their specials. The Martok Drone does 40 damage while the Heavy Disruptor does 48 against Destroyers. Either is plenty to swat a Rhienn away - at least 1 per engagement.
Am I hearing correctly that you are suggesting Kvorts as a counter?
EDIT: Ok I saw your own edit. I agree that Kvorts and KbeajQ could be mixed well together, and also that if you lose the opening engagement and Talons get refitted you're screwed, but I feel KbeajQ primarily are your only hope.
posted on December 17th, 2009, 12:25 am
It isn't all that different - other than a little elaboration and mixing. What I am stating is that really, if you've let your opponent mass Rhienns against you as Klingon, you are as good as gone - K'beajQ or not.
Indeed K'vort are more likely to be kited, but I often lay traps with 2-3 of them before engaging a Rhienn force with a few sucker units. Usually what I do is let my K'beajQ hit the Rhienns head on, launch a few specials and get wasted, then have the more fragile (but more powerful weapons/defense wise) K'vort decloak from behind the Rhienns and let the Romies choose which way they want to run
. It's really the build time that is the clincher for me - I generally have those pumping out while the K'beajQ are coming out of the Kahless station at that point... and I know, it is only with some luck or mad skill that I'm going to be able to defeat the forces at that point 
.
I like the K'vort at this point (mind you, ONLY if the B'rel rush failed so miserably) because I can against try to outnumber the Rhienns. K'beajQ have no chance at that, and that means that every one you lose is even harder to recuperate from. Most people don't expect 5-10 K'vorts to decloak or approach from two sides, and since their pulses hit reaaaaally hard, you'll definitely smack a few Rhienns done on the first chance. If you need to retreat after that, so be it, but you've usually managed to bring down more enemy vessels then the KbeajQ's managed in my experience.
I agree completely that KbeajQ are nice with the medium ranged 360 arc, specials, and system durability - that's why I like building both forces and combining them. The main problem I have with them as I stated above is the slow building time. Your Rommie opponent ain't gonna just twiddle his thumbs while you pump out pure KbeajQ, and it'll be like leading lambs to the slaughter if you just engage with 2-3 KbeajQ in the first round. Either way, I find that the combined force does best ... but in both cases it is often a lost cause.
Indeed K'vort are more likely to be kited, but I often lay traps with 2-3 of them before engaging a Rhienn force with a few sucker units. Usually what I do is let my K'beajQ hit the Rhienns head on, launch a few specials and get wasted, then have the more fragile (but more powerful weapons/defense wise) K'vort decloak from behind the Rhienns and let the Romies choose which way they want to run
. It's really the build time that is the clincher for me - I generally have those pumping out while the K'beajQ are coming out of the Kahless station at that point... and I know, it is only with some luck or mad skill that I'm going to be able to defeat the forces at that point . I like the K'vort at this point (mind you, ONLY if the B'rel rush failed so miserably) because I can against try to outnumber the Rhienns. K'beajQ have no chance at that, and that means that every one you lose is even harder to recuperate from. Most people don't expect 5-10 K'vorts to decloak or approach from two sides, and since their pulses hit reaaaaally hard, you'll definitely smack a few Rhienns done on the first chance. If you need to retreat after that, so be it, but you've usually managed to bring down more enemy vessels then the KbeajQ's managed in my experience.
I agree completely that KbeajQ are nice with the medium ranged 360 arc, specials, and system durability - that's why I like building both forces and combining them. The main problem I have with them as I stated above is the slow building time. Your Rommie opponent ain't gonna just twiddle his thumbs while you pump out pure KbeajQ, and it'll be like leading lambs to the slaughter if you just engage with 2-3 KbeajQ in the first round. Either way, I find that the combined force does best ... but in both cases it is often a lost cause.
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