Klingon SuSa >> Borg ?

posted on June 22nd, 2009, 9:22 pm

1 Cube < 34 Susas (and one B'rel)

posted on June 22nd, 2009, 11:09 pm

3 assims < 16 susas

I have to disagree heartily. Susas have so few crew that you either have to site there watching which one is being assimilated (at the rate of 12 crew/s/assim!) and get it out of assimilation range in less than 3 seconds (3 assim = 36 crew/s), hard to do even at maximum range, or just blitz and hope you don't lose too many. It's pretty much a given that 3-4 of your susas are going to become borg susas against a competent enemy, and more against a good enemy.

Seems like you're testing your susas against an AI borg, or a human player who is awful at playing borg. Susa's are far from the best choice for Klingon vs Borg in my experience (Velqlargs are much better, sit out of range doing constant damage since borg ships rarely dodge torps).

posted on June 22nd, 2009, 11:35 pm

Well stated Binks 

posted on June 23rd, 2009, 9:27 pm

i am talking about MP (against humans) and i don´t talk about costs - 16 susas killed 2 spheres (although i do not know what modules), 16 susas killed 3 assims (high weapon autonomy often means they split assimbeams, microing often is a problem due to lag or surprise - so your susas losses are not that bad)

I just experienced that in MP Sessions a fight Klingon vs Borg is a sure win for Klingon (with Susa spam)... this started like 1 1/2 month ago (Never tried susas in masses before, and with borg being more expensive than today it was more like "this won´t go with the borg going cheaper") but still today we don´t exactly know what to do (best solution: your non borg team mate kills the klingon).
We tried early assim rush, spheres, most of the tactics you came up with (except for cubes - the reason is obvious)

posted on June 23rd, 2009, 10:18 pm

even with nanites?

posted on June 23rd, 2009, 10:51 pm

I honestly have no idea where you're coming from Fleetz. I played a Klingon vs Borg game just yesterday with my opponent spamming susa's, and by the time his attack was done i had 3 assims  (1 died, 1 almost dead) and 6 susa's, and he was in full retreat with 4 or so susa's left alive. I don't know exactly how many he brought, I'd guess 13-15 or so.

It's 3 seconds to assimilate a susa. That alone would make me hesitant to use susa's against a borg player. Microing assimilation beams is easy, low move/weapon autonomy (assims with high weapon autonomy is generally a bad idea unless you have boarding parties and lots of assims), click button, click nearby ship, wait a few seconds, click transporter, click ships, 30 goto 10. 4 clicks, 5 seconds and about 300 weapon energy to take a susa. That means in 20 seconds 4 of your susas are you opponents, ignoring energy regen. 30 seconds (with regen) and 6 are belong to your opponent and you may be close to killing one assim (that was pretty much what happened in our match, 30s in I had 6 of his susa's, no weapon energy, and he was about to kill one of my assims).

And if we're going to start bringing lag or surprise into the debate we need to bring it in equally on both sides, what happens when those 16 susas are caught unawares by the assimilators? Better to just leave those factors out, as they're inherently unbalancing, and talk about a straight match up.

posted on June 28th, 2009, 8:38 pm

just use your cloaking device
and assims usually dont fly in a bunch (the always spread) - attack one after another
just 10 susas against 3 assims? attack earlier and build more ships

...and to surprise a klingon with borg?

honestly...

posted on June 28th, 2009, 9:09 pm

Cloaking doesn't do so well against the Borg Fleetz
Considering that the active Tachyon Decloak comes free at the start of a match from the Assimilation Matrix...

Surprising your enemy as Borg is generally pretty easy... few people expect an Assimilator in 4 minutes to begin with (you've built 4 Sus'a', congratulations), and second, use those nebulae if you got 'em.

Likewise, bunching up your Assimilators is easy if you control them one by one, instead of selecting them all at once.

posted on June 28th, 2009, 11:40 pm

i give up, whatever...

posted on June 29th, 2009, 12:38 am

Well, play me or Binks online and we'll try out various strategies