Klingon dode counter

posted on July 26th, 2011, 5:16 am

This is true, MrXt. It takes lots of testing and messing around to figure out what is balanced and not. While brels take more micro against dodes they do work out really well

posted on July 26th, 2011, 10:08 am

im gonna play a little devils advocate here funny, in that video you posted you gained a massive advantage by getting a dode on its own right at the start of the vid. 1 dode on its own is a lot less scary. and when you attacked his fleet near the blue neb he didnt do anything to react, he just sat there. dodes arent gonna outrun a fleet of brels, scubes might or might not depending on micro. so he should have just flown back into the blue neb like a good borg. brels are short ranged so being in a neb would have been super useful.

[MrXT]

posted on July 26th, 2011, 12:13 pm

Last edited by MrXT on July 26th, 2011, 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I lost in that game against you MrXT because I suddenly stopped all of my brel production, built 2 kebejq yards, and that kind of a switch proved devastating on my ship production.

This is exactly my point, the briels were not effectivly countering the dodes and when i switched to scubes you switched to k,beqs and i just switched back to dodes and you lost you just could not keep up, klingons need to destroy stuff to get supply and if i remember correctly you only killed 1 dode using those briels once i started to get more ships and had you boxed at your expansion yard your ships started falling like flies agaisnt my dodes sphere and scubes and it was all because you had to spam so many briels.

This is why i think the klingons need a better counter for the dode and the verlegs are the perefect match for that since they are not used much in any game. susas too since they are short range torp ships perfect for borg but even susas get eaten by dodes right now.

Ok i do get why you dont want to agree with my since me and you only tested it once, but iv done this loads of times with many people and thats why iv now posted a topic on it so i expected many people to agree with me. But if you want to test it your self then go do so, right now the dode is OP vs rom and klingons since neither really have a good dode counter, the romulans have the laheval which does a pretty good job but still takes alot of damage from it but the klingons only have the briel and this just isnt effective enough.

posted on July 26th, 2011, 1:10 pm

the verlegs are the perefect match for that since they are not used much in any game.

not used by you, the problem isnt with the veq, its with people, who dont bother using it.

as has been said, the qawduj is super cool vs dodes as its stance special (available from the start with no research) makes it immune to subsystem damage, allowing cloak retreats. the qawduj can be made from the starbase (you get that at the start too ), and tanks for sangs (which dont need a tech building, only the yards. so qawduj sang mix gets you a yard at your main to protect a moon, a yard at your exp to protect those moons (assuming duel 2).

posted on July 26th, 2011, 1:27 pm

not used by you,

Why do you always post stupid stuff like that, i play alot more often than you and i do not see them used regually and if you actually read before posting these stupid provocative posts you would notice i said not used much, i did not type not used. Stop trolling.

posted on July 26th, 2011, 1:32 pm

How do you know you play more? The games you play are also a minority of the total games, which makes judging ship use very limited.

posted on July 26th, 2011, 1:58 pm

Why do you always post stupid stuff like that, i play alot more often than you and i do not see them used regually and if you actually read before posting these stupid provocative posts you would notice i said not used much, i did not type not used. Stop trolling.

im not provoking you, im correcting you, whether you get all angry and pissy is purely your own issue. im not trolling you at all, you just have anger issues

the veq is not useless, i suspect you just dont know how to use it.

posted on July 26th, 2011, 2:12 pm

im not provoking you, im correcting you, whether you get all angry and pissy is purely your own issue. im not trolling you at all, you just have anger issues

the veq is not useless, i suspect you just dont know how to use it.

You cant correct anything when you didnt even read what was said, you got it wrong and dont even have the decency to admit you were incorrect. Im not angry i find it sad that you have nothing better to do but troll.

posted on July 26th, 2011, 2:13 pm

You cant correct anything when you didnt even read what was said, you got it wrong and dont even have the decency to admit you were incorrect. Im not angry i find it sad that you have nothing better to do but troll.

lol whatever, you're not listening, so no point continuing.

posted on July 28th, 2011, 1:04 pm

First: That ship is called "B'rel", not "briel", and the other one is called "Veqlaragh" .

Second: The topic about the B'rel and Klingon long range counters has been coming up every now and then. I also made some threads about it and I still think Klingons could need a mid-game long range counter, since they only have the B'rel and the Negh'Var with the same passive. The Sang is useful for many things but not everything(esp. Rhienns).
The B'rel is one of the hardest ships to properly use in Fleet Ops, it will go down in any fleet action. Nevertheless, if you know how, where and when to use it it can be great. You need good micromanagement, though. In my opinion the problems of the B'rel are the build time and supply costs. Because of those you can't use the B'rel in huge numbers and ignore losing 2 or 3 every now and then, as Dom players can with their Bugs or Feds with Sabres, or Roms with basic Rhienns.
Another issue of the B'rel is that it has very little defense, therefore it is shot first, often can't retreat and has no tank but the KTinga. Weapon fatigue solves all those problems but needs supplies  .
I think it would be nice to see one of the mentioned problems reduced in one of the coming patches: either higher build time, or less supply costs.

posted on July 28th, 2011, 4:16 pm

It's a difficult topic, because the devs have gone to such great lengths to make brel spam not overpowered.  Any increase in build time will make them even harder to use in the early game, while a decrease in supply cost could make spam too easy.  I like the way it's set up right now, with the single exception that I would reduce the supply cost of weapon fatigue a tiny bit.  After all, sometimes people need to use it on all their brels at once and the energy cost can prevent them from using it too often for the devs taste.  Maybe now that cloaking is free they could increase that energy cost.

posted on July 28th, 2011, 4:39 pm

The problem with having Veqs be the counter is that its even harder to get Veqs than it is to get brel. At least the Brel give you a number advantage...

posted on July 28th, 2011, 4:42 pm

Yeah guys, settle down .

  B'rel do work well against Dodes when put straight up against them.  A major consideration though is that B'rel are slow to produce and require supply-expensive hangars to be built in order to produce them.  Borg lose nothing switching between their ships so if B'rel are SUPPOSED to be the counter then there is a disparity of resource manipulation there .

 However ... Dode spam can be beat by other means.  KBQ / Sang do indeed take extra damage from Dode torpedoes, but they also both have 360 degree firing arcs and do solid damage.  x2 Int. Dodes don't have good regen or hp, so that damage coming in from Klingon Ships is essentially hp lost forever.  KBQ are still solid tanks and the Sangs can match range with the Dodes.


  Klingon v. Borg matchups basically go as thus for me:  

- Begin with a build that will hold off an attempted Scube / Probe Rush.
 KBQ/Sang works great for this.
- Transition into heavier ships based on your opponent's strategy.
 Vorcha vs. Scubes, more Sang/Chargh vs. Scubes/Adaptors/Spheres, Negh'Var vs. anything if you can.
- Wait until you have a critical number of vessels and can ensure the destruction of at least a few Borg each engagement.
 You can speed up this process by "locking" ships with Chargh's, Vorcha Polarons, or Qaw'Duj Polaron.
- Once the Borg can no longer leave their base safely begin eating their expansions while expanding on your own.
- If you get Diamond/Nanite Spammed cloak and attack the diamonds from multiple angles to avoid the Nanites stacking as effectively.  A few Vutpa and Qaw'Duj with Imperial Stance will be your best friend here.  Diamond Torpedoes are incredibly strong but will only hit Vutpa 36% of the time if they are the lowest defense unit available.

posted on July 28th, 2011, 11:25 pm

Yep =D thats what I normally do against the Borg, until people got really pissed at me. The other team just cried saying "There is nothing we can do against that Noob strat! Its so OP!!!"  Dode spam did go bye bye tho

posted on August 3rd, 2011, 7:11 pm

The reason for my suggestion is because neither the susa nor the varleg or what ever its called have any real use in the game at the moment so i thought both ships would be perfect for adapting them to hard counter the dode,

Did it ever occour in your mind that fleet ops doesn't use hard counters?

yes there are a few RARE examples, but i don't think the devs are going to start hard coutering things just becuz you have to be inventive to defeat it, 

And P.S. vorchas counters the dodes just fine, and you can get to them rather quick, just make sure to micro them out so you don't lose any ships.