Klingon dode counter

posted on July 25th, 2011, 3:40 pm

As far as i can see neither klingon avatar has an effective early counter for the dode so why not make the valeg and the susa the main dode counter, give them both omni armour plates and have them take reduced damage from support ships and do increased damage to support ships.

what do you think.

posted on July 25th, 2011, 3:48 pm

Try your hand at mixing in Qaw'Duj Very difficult to disable, takes no extra damage, and strong early game stats 

posted on July 25th, 2011, 3:55 pm

Try your hand at mixing in Qaw'Duj Very difficult to disable, takes no extra damage, and strong early game stats 

already tried it still dies the same as all the rest, klingons need a straight counter for the dode.

posted on July 25th, 2011, 4:26 pm

They do. It's called the B'rel.
NOW BEFORE YOU JUMP AT ME AND SAY YOU WILL GET RAPED!!!11

Mort tried it and if you spam them enough you can win ^^

posted on July 25th, 2011, 4:53 pm

Lol I remember so many games where you spammed dodes MrXT and brels worked wonders. I had like 10 brels against 4 dodes. I used combat supply and it worked like a charm. 12 of them could even take out a sphere, and I think that I ended up with more supply than before

posted on July 25th, 2011, 5:33 pm

Well I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that yes, B'rel counter Dodes, but are so terribly countered by Scubes that I almost wouldn't bother.  Taqqy B'rels really will take Dodes down quickly, but that requires making a BoP yard and using 40 supply that you might be better off spending elsewhere.

  I would support what Dom says about Qaw'Duj made from the Kahless - but definitely give it some practice before you jump into that type of build .

  Another flexible strategy is to continue building KBQ / Sang and move to Vorcha when you can.  Vorcha take very little damage from Dodes and still dish out quite a bit even though they do 10% less to long range.  It all depends on your playstyle but is by no means impossible .

posted on July 25th, 2011, 6:06 pm

sadly the dode does full damage (about 10) to a vorcha, which is still substantial (its definitely not as much as sangs/field yard ships take but it gets the job done), if a few dodes can pin a vorcha down with subsystem disabling, then they wont waste too much time destroying it.

maybe if ablative armour blocked the liquids that cause the subsystem disable, and vorcha are much harder to disable, then vorcha would be a better counter.

currently i'd rather make more qawdujs without armoury. since armoury (and the vorcha itself) is expensive. the qawduj takes the same damage from dode (the base damage of about 10) but gets lower disable time because of it's powerful systems. the starting special is available without armoury, and is actually the most useful special you can have vs the dodes. when the stance is active the qawduj never gets subsystem disables.

qawdujs tank for sangs (same def/hit points, but the computer likes the qawduj more i think , probably because of its weapons) and they have some torps so are good enough vs borg. if you activate stance at the start, then the sangs will be the weakest ships and probably will get more attention. but if you wait until you wanna retreat a qawduj, then use stance, then use cloak and run, it wont lose any subsystems and will get away. rinse and repeat for all your qawdujs.

i'd mix qawduj and sang, after miners are done building can use kahless station to make qawdujs if u have money left over but battle yard cant keep up.

and when the game progresses and armour is built, you have qawdujs ready to get polaron field of death.

posted on July 25th, 2011, 9:39 pm

Briels may or may not counter dodes but its such an easy switch that if you add scubes into the fleet them those breils are countered and spamming briels is a sure way to lose any game.

Funnystuff i do remember the game that your talking about but that was  team game and i remember being doubled teamed it was NOT your briels that did it, and this is 1 game not many.

Unless they decloak right on top of a dode then they will not counter it, it takes alot of ships to defeat any borg ship and when dodes are spammed only larger ships can really counter them successfully certainly not briels.

Briels are fast but dodes can still kite and cause massive damage on a briel fleet and dodes will never miss them so im really sick of see'ing people claim them to be a counter when in fact it only works in about 1 out of 10 games, your going to lose so many briels its not even funny and klingons need to kill to get supply sdo losing so many briels isnt going to help at all.

The reason for my suggestion is because neither the susa nor the varleg or what ever its called have any real use in the game at the moment so i thought both ships would be perfect for adapting them to hard counter the dode, as far as i know neither ships have any passives that have them do increased or decreased damage to any type of ships, iv found varlegs to be very good at shooting stations but they are so easly beaten by any type of ships that there is no point wasting 500 odd dil to build them, making both of these the klingon counter to the dode makes sense to me.

A monsoon is a straight counter for a dode a briel can take so little damage and doesnt have any damage giving special for it to counter them properly.

posted on July 25th, 2011, 10:01 pm

when dodes are spammed only larger ships can really counter them successfully

you pointed out the monsoon later in this very post, the monsoon is small.

The reason for my suggestion is because neither the susa nor the varleg or what ever its called have any real use in the game at the moment

and

iv found varlegs to be very good at shooting stations but they are so easly beaten by any type of ships that there is no point wasting 500 odd dil to build them

susa, fast, cloaks, has loads of torps, has a passive making it do more damage to stations and a special that makes it do more damage for a while. use it to get in, quickly snipe stations and get out. butterbread used them in a replay recently quite well, killing mining stations/yards. kvorts (a traditional martok klingon raider) usually takes much much longer to kill stations due to all pulses

susa can also be used in medium numbers to add to an existing fleet to help it kill non turtling turrets easier and susas in your fleet remain useful later game when ships get bigger. spammed susas will clear turrets quite well.

veqlaragh cloaks, and has extremely long range, outranging the most common turrets (phaser/pulse turrets, phaser sentries, dode relays). use a handful of them to bombard an enemy turret, have a scout nearby, if you see the enemy fleet coming  (roms and klinks dont turtle much, so incoming fleets wont be cloaked) cloak your veqs, and raid with your fleet somewhere else, when they respond there, keep hitting the turret with veqs etc. or keep the rest of your fleet cloaked near veqs, anything comes near, run veqs, and make them run through your fleet to get to the veqs. the veq special will even kill their engines, keeping them from running away when they realise you are ambushing them. veqs should be used kinda like a teutoburg, but are slightly better due to the fact that they can cloak to hide where they will strike next.

susas work wonders vs borg, they can keep up with scubes, do decent damage, and if the enemy gets dodes, susas arent gonna be blown completely out of the water (the space water)

posted on July 25th, 2011, 10:14 pm

I guess MrXt is posting about a game where he beat me...  He managed to win because I switched to kebejq spam and my brels arent as strong as Taqrojas. I also did not have the combat supply this time.

[MrXT]

posted on July 25th, 2011, 10:16 pm

Last edited by MrXT on July 25th, 2011, 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

you pointed out the monsoon later in this very post, the monsoon is small.

and

susa, fast, cloaks, has loads of torps, has a passive making it do more damage to stations and a special that makes it do more damage for a while. use it to get in, quickly snipe stations and get out. butterbread used them in a replay recently quite well, killing mining stations/yards. kvorts (a traditional martok klingon raider) usually takes much much longer to kill stations due to all pulses

susa can also be used in medium numbers to add to an existing fleet to help it kill non turtling turrets easier and susas in your fleet remain useful later game when ships get bigger. spammed susas will clear turrets quite well.

veqlaragh cloaks, and has extremely long range, outranging the most common turrets (phaser/pulse turrets, phaser sentries, dode relays). use a handful of them to bombard an enemy turret, have a scout nearby, if you see the enemy fleet coming  (roms and klinks dont turtle much, so incoming fleets wont be cloaked) cloak your veqs, and raid with your fleet somewhere else, when they respond there, keep hitting the turret with veqs etc. or keep the rest of your fleet cloaked near veqs, anything comes near, run veqs, and make them run through your fleet to get to the veqs. the veq special will even kill their engines, keeping them from running away when they realise you are ambushing them. veqs should be used kinda like a teutoburg, but are slightly better due to the fact that they can cloak to hide where they will strike next.

susas work wonders vs borg, they can keep up with scubes, do decent damage, and if the enemy gets dodes, susas arent gonna be blown completely out of the water (the space water)

Wow that was a mouthful.

Your really missing the point here.

Klingons have no straight dode counter, my suggestion was to use 2 rarely used ships (susa used a bit more often than the varleg) to counter the dode, i just had a game with funny who went into the game thinking he was going to win.

He didnt, he spammed the hell out of the briels (tripple yarding them) and they were doing pretty well but then i switched to scubes and 1 em scube and a prime sphere (3 prime 1 regen) and his little briels got owned he tried to switch to k'beq but i switched back to dodes and he quit. If you have to spam so many briels to counter just 2 dodes i had at the time then its not a counter at all. Iv said enough and im tired of reading and writing such long paragraphs.

The klingons need an effective counter i dont understand why anyone would be agaisnt this.

I guess MrXt is posting about a game where he beat me...  He managed to win because I switched to kebejq spam and my brels arent as strong as Taqrojas. I also did not have the combat supply this time.

Ok well done now you have just admited that martoks briels do not counter dodes..... so again proving my point i guess ill have to destroy you when your the female avatar to but im pretty sure your will make more excuses about why your losing maybe the suns in your eyes this time.

[funnystuffpictures]

posted on July 25th, 2011, 10:19 pm

Last edited by funnystuffpictures on July 25th, 2011, 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

All this proves is that Dodes do decent against kbejQ...

Now just because I lost one game does not prove you right... And I did not go into expecting to win... I just expected to see brels pwn dodes xD. Which they did.

Btw I did not triple yard them. I just had a 3rd yard in order to repair

posted on July 25th, 2011, 11:13 pm

All this proves is that Dodes do decent against kbejQ...

Now just because I lost one game does not prove you right... And I did not go into expecting to win... I just expected to see brels pwn dodes xD. Which they did.

Btw I did not triple yard them. I just had a 3rd yard in order to repair

I cant believe that you dont get this.

If you spam the hell out off briels then a simple switch of ships and you have lost. If you must triple yard briels in order to counter my 2 dodes then they are not a counter at all. Almost any ships when its spammed will kill anything except dodes vs a starbase thats funny to watch tho.

Briels spammed in excess will defo counter a dode i dont doubt this at all iv seen it. But you need so many of them to counter a fleet of dodes that you will have to spam them from alot of yards and if the borg player switches to other ships like i just did you have lost. It only worked for you in that 2v2 because your romulan ally was backing you up and i was with tiger who at the time was a noob.

posted on July 25th, 2011, 11:45 pm

This makes me really want to see veqlaragh spam used against dode spam.  Like Brels, the problem with it is that scubes can probably counter veqlaraghs.

The difference between long and artillery range is so small, it would be hard to pull off but in theory a veqlaragh fleet could kite a dode fleet.  As long as the dodes advance, you run away but the moment they turn, you perma-disable one of their engines and the rest must choose between leaving it behind or staying in that one spot forever.

[funnystuffpictures]

posted on July 26th, 2011, 4:41 am

Last edited by funnystuffpictures on July 26th, 2011, 4:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

I cant believe that you dont get this.

You might be right. What I understand is that the creation of this thread was under the belief that Early Klingons do not have “an effective early counter for the dode” when they do. The Brel is a actually a great little ship that is very misunderstood.

Briels spammed in excess will defo counter a dode i dont doubt this at all iv seen it. But you need so many of them to counter a fleet of dodes that you will have to spam them from alot of yards and if the borg player switches to other ships like i just did you have lost.

I lost in that game against you MrXT because I suddenly stopped all of my brel production, built 2 kebejq yards, and that kind of a switch proved devastating on my ship production. If I had kept building brels even your scubes would have died. My problem was is that I had 6 brels, you were building a sphere, and I decided to attack miners instead of the building sphere. If I had gotten combat supply, things would have been a lot different. However, I made a mistake. That game was lost due to player error, and not a counter error.
Normally when someone wishes to prove a point when testing the balance of a game, they play many games and make a decision when the results are almost all consistent. Mort and I have tested dode spam several times, but often Brel spam emerges victorious.  You however, just played one game with me. After winning one game you didn’t even wish to try again. Oh I beat funny so Brels definitely don’t work. This gives me the proof I need to prove my point! Bam!
From the very beginning, it felt like to me that you took some sort of sadistic pleasure from this from the start. I joined your game, pressed go, and you quickly uttered “Im going to spam dodes. Counter them.” , and snapped the launch button with little warning.

i just had a game with funny who went into the game thinking he was going to win.

Where did that come from? If anything you were the one that gave this impression.

his little briels got owned

See? There it is again. Games are supposed to be friendly and I just had this sick feeling the entire game that any wrong move by me would be used in this manner.

So anyway, instead of arguing endlessly, I thought that it should be time for the return of one of my demonstration videos. Wow it’s been a really long time since I have done one of these (OP Bug Ram was the last one), but without further ado, I present “Brel Spam vs Borg”! This time Nuke gave a good try to follow the same strategy MrXT used earlier on me today and I of course fixed the mistakes that I made. Funny that most of these videos are supposed to prove that something is overpowered when today it is to prove that things are just fine. Fleet Operations is a very balanced and fun game that is better today than it ever has been before!