Generix Support Refit Shield recharge too strong in big numb

posted on June 21st, 2010, 7:16 pm

Sorry I just feel that anything good that is Romulan is removed lol. Yes the ability was abit OP, but all they need to do is give it a nerf. Not remove it.

Cos I mean, they made this turret system for the Romulans. Moved the Rheinn refit to a point so when you tech to it, you dont need it. What next? Remove Generixs Completely? :

posted on June 21st, 2010, 7:22 pm

Okay... Firstly, yes you CAN tell the support refit apart from other Genrix, because they have large oval generators on their wings. So it should not be a huge issue to hone in on them and dust them.

Secondly, even in two seconds, the cloak cycle is fine, your ships, if set to yellow or red alert movement autonomy should still peg many cloaking ships nicely. Hull and system damage is not something the support ships of the romulans can repair (unless they have captured a few feddy repair ships as well)

If you're playing as the borg, switch to using nanite clouds and waves instead of optimized spheres, to have a chance of killing or degrading their special weapons; since shield recharge really doesn't take up much special energy and just draining it from the romulans won't kill the ability for them to still use it in small bursts. Or use cutting beams and devastating attack to slice them up first because, as said above, you can tell them from other Genrix by just eying them for a second.

In short, prioritize your targets better, and don't let support ships scurry away.

(incidentally, I do agree the rhienn refit system change sucks... by the time I get to the beam or torpedo refit, they're being cut apart in fleet engagements before I can even bang those special weapons buttons)

posted on June 21st, 2010, 7:39 pm

Okay... Firstly, yes you CAN tell the support refit apart from other Genrix, because they have large oval generators on their wings. So it should not be a huge issue to hone in on them and dust them.

Secondly, even in two seconds, the cloak cycle is fine, your ships, if set to yellow or red alert movement autonomy should still peg many cloaking ships nicely. Hull and system damage is not something the support ships of the romulans can repair (unless they have captured a few feddy repair ships as well)

If you're playing as the borg, switch to using nanite clouds and waves instead of optimized spheres, to have a chance of killing or degrading their special weapons; since shield recharge really doesn't take up much special energy and just draining it from the romulans won't kill the ability for them to still use it in small bursts. Or use cutting beams and devastating attack to slice them up first because, as said above, you can tell them from other Genrix by just eying them for a second.

In short, prioritize your targets better, and don't let support ships scurry away.

(incidentally, I do agree the rhienn refit system change sucks... by the time I get to the beam or torpedo refit, they're being cut apart in fleet engagements before I can even bang those special weapons buttons)

The Generix is medium-sized and I play with max zoom-out, when a fleet of ten to twenty Generix decloaks, a few ovals that are the same color as the rest of the ship don't exactly catch my attention.

So my ships all chase after that one ship to catch it in the two second window, the ship which can get its shields recharged, then cloak after getting out of range of the other supports, all the while my fleet is under attack from all the other ships? That will work out well  .

Nanites rule as Borg, but no other faction can do that (until the Polaron field is fixed, it's supposed to work in a similar way.)

I don't like the Rhienn refit system either, I just keep them unrefitted so I can do phase plates and retreat them once their shields go down.

posted on June 21st, 2010, 7:52 pm

all these posts for something that will be removed in the next patch...

posted on June 21st, 2010, 7:57 pm

Next patch isn't this patch, and the weapon is in this one. Therefore, people will complain.

posted on June 21st, 2010, 8:08 pm

If you absolutely positively HAVE to kill every Generix Support Refit in the fleet, here are a few handy tips & tools:

Federation: Norways, Defiants, Remores, and Canaverals.  Defiants and Remores can snipe them, almost guaranteeing a kill.  Norways with plasma coil and Canaverals with sensor blackout can keep your opponent too busy microing his ships to safety to properly use his Support refits.

Klingons: Never underestimate the utility of keeping a handful of B'rels in your fleet, even later in the game.  Their passive ability lets you murder ships after they cloak, which is frankly invaluable.  If you can spare your battle yard long enough to build a Vutpa' or two, you can get the same results in a tougher package.  Another effective tool is the Vor'cha's polaron torpedo, which does impressive damage along with subsystem disablement. The KBQ's special ability can also be a good sniping tool, if you have enough and time them properly.

Romulans: Use your own support refits.

Dominion: Use your S2's to buff your fleet and focus fire on your enemy's Supports.  Breen cruisers and battleships will do well in this scenario, but masses of bugs work fine too.  If you have a Hyperspace Artillery or two, they will certainly give your enemy more important things to worry about than recharging his shields.  If one of his Supports gets damaged in the strike, you should have no trouble picking in off before your opponent can micro its cloak.

Borg: As mentioned, make use of sniping abilities, nanites, and micro'd EM cubes.  If you're feeling particularly Borgy, try and assimilate them.  That will knock your opponent off-kilter.

[Myles]

posted on June 21st, 2010, 8:17 pm

Last edited by Myles on June 21st, 2010, 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

i hope u did not just suggest using bugs versus support refits.

as im sure everyone will tell u, bugs have ADAI, which deals reduced damage to all support ships (deals 61% less damage), AND takes increased damage from them (takes 24% more). this more than cancels out the reduced damage (reduced by 31%) that bugs take from medium sized ships (of which the support refit is).

never build bugs against supports (like levals or gen support refits), instead build breen cruisers, they have SSEC, which deals 31% more damage against mediums, but has no weakness for supports. (for those interested, SSEC's weakness is weak subsystems, which means it is weak versus anything that deals direct hull damage, like Shield Breaking Torpedo or veteran galaxies/akiras, but then everything is weak to the vet galaxies and akiras )

[funnystuffpictures]

posted on June 21st, 2010, 10:21 pm

Last edited by funnystuffpictures on June 21st, 2010, 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Well the reason you you couldnt kill anything was because you had 2 spheres and a diamond with about 5 e2s and akiras. My other ships were spectures and took 50% less damage from your ships. Also, I had really good micro on that and about 4 veterans.

Another thing I'd like to mention is that Mijural has a cap but Helev does not!?  This was one of my first time playing helev and I thought the cap would limit me from building them.  I am sorry if I had more than 6 but I thought I was just replacing dead ones lol. Imagine my surprise when I go up against that diamond with 10 supports lol. did absolutely no damage .

Anyway Bigmac I am terribly sorry but after all it was a 3v2 and mimesot couldn't build anything so it was more like a 3v1. 

Also 6 generex supports are pretty tough, but you just need to find the counters and you did a pretty good job at that. As soon as I looked away for a second all my ships immediately died, so it was probably my micro that was op

posted on June 21st, 2010, 10:28 pm

Neither faction has a cap, that's why you have to check like it says in the guide  . If people are using more than 6, no wonder there were problems! 

[funnystuffpictures]

posted on June 21st, 2010, 10:33 pm

Last edited by funnystuffpictures on June 21st, 2010, 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Seriously it doesnt allow you to build more than 6 as mijural.

Ok I think its when you build it from the yard.

[Tyler]

posted on June 21st, 2010, 10:35 pm

Last edited by Tyler on June 21st, 2010, 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

If neither faction has a cap, then why does all three varients (both avatars and mixed-tech) have a cap of 6? Both the odfs and guide agree that it's limited to 6.

posted on June 21st, 2010, 10:41 pm

The cap is broken for refitting (but not building) - hence why it is in the exploit list

[Bigmachk]

posted on June 21st, 2010, 10:51 pm

Last edited by Bigmachk on June 21st, 2010, 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Im not having a go at you funnystuff, I was just frustrated that as a optimise borg i did everything humanly possible with what I had and couldnt break through your shields due to the shield recharge ability. Yes I did use Nanites, energy draining spheres, the shield draining torpedo and energy slicer and other stuff but I just couldnt penetrate the shields as they were recharged instantly when they went down.

You didnt fail at macroing, it just took brute force and alot higher numbers (3 fleets) to break through the shield recharge at the end.

posted on June 21st, 2010, 11:04 pm

Whit only 6 generix support refits (or 5,6,7,8 as it is difficult to count them, while refitting - stupid little bug) the shield recharge will be possible for a few seconds, if you survive that long, the tide will drastically turn. With the bugfix exploits will not be ossible any more and the rommies are punished enough.

posted on June 22nd, 2010, 12:43 am

Part of the problem is that the Support refit has a stronger defensive value than powerful warships like the Norexan (34 vs 32).  So it's easy to build cheap spectre refits that reduced pulse and torpedo damage.  They have a 20% reduction to pulses, and remember that in addition to the 25% torp damage reduction, they also miss 20% of the time as it is a medium ship like the defiant.

Now add in a ship that has a defensive value of 34 that you HAVE to kill while the spectres munch on your weaker ships, while you have to take on a strong defensive vessel that has buddies that can heal it as well.  It reminds me of WoW where the warrior would be followed around by a healer who would just top him off all the time in PvP.

Cheap Ships + Strong Buddies = Romulan win.  Ever wonder why lots of people are forgoing almost all other romulan ships to spam waves and waves of spectres and supports?

Anyway, it's getting removed in exchange for some more interesting gameplay.  You are touched by darkness, Generix spammers. I see it as a blemish that will grow with time. I could warn you of course, but you would not listen. I could kill you, but someone would take your place. So I do the only thing I can — I go....to kick some ass and feel good about it!