Classes

posted on September 7th, 2011, 10:29 pm

The Canaveral's Pulse also does increased damage to destroyers, like the Monsoon

posted on September 7th, 2011, 10:31 pm

actually because the passive bonuses are multiplied together in fleetops, the monsoon still takes less damage from the canav. the canav does 50% more, which is a mult of 1.5, the monsoons takes 50% less, which is a mult of 0.5.

1*0.5*1.5=0.75<1

So it's the Canaveral one is applied first, then the Monsoon passive? I wasn't sure which was applied first, so I went with the Monsoon.

posted on September 7th, 2011, 10:34 pm

Im not sure if passives work like that. If a ship is considered long range for weapons I dont believe any passive that couters it will be less effective if the ship is closer range, Its still considered a long range ship even though its fighting at closer ranges, meaning the passive is still 100% effective. Maybe Im mistaken, but that was my assumption. If Im incorrect Id love to know as well, anyone know for sure?

you have it correct. the passive's effect is created by setting the weapon to do modified damage against the ship in question. the canaveral's weapons always do hdsg reduced damage to the monsoon regardless of where they are fired from.

The Canaveral's Pulse also does increased damage to destroyers, like the Monsoon

what are the stats for that? i dont see a reference to it in the guide or in game? is this unique to the canaveral's pulse?

So it's the Canaveral one is applied first, then the Monsoon passive? I wasn't sure which was applied first, so I went with the Monsoon.

because the passive effects are multiplied together it doesnt matter which order they occur in. 1.5*0.5=0.5*1.5 because multiplication commutes.

posted on September 7th, 2011, 10:41 pm

I was under the impression that putting the Monsoon passive first would cause the damage to be reduced by 50%, then adding 50% because of the Canaveral passive. That order wouldn't cause any damage reduction.

100 divide by 2 + 50 should be larger than 100 + 50 divide by 2.

posted on September 7th, 2011, 10:48 pm

I was under the impression that putting the Monsoon passive first would cause the damage to be reduced by 50%, then adding 50% because of the Canaveral passive. That order wouldn't cause any damage reduction.

100 divide by 2 + 50 should be larger than 100 + 50 divide by 2.

thats not how the passives work. you have dividing by 2 (multiplying by 0.5) for hdsg, but adding 50 for ftc, the addition there is not how to apply ftc. ftc means do 1.5 times as much damage. ie multiply by 1.5. the second expression is correct because 100+50=100*1.5. the first expression is 100*0.5+100*0.5, which is obviously 100.

so under hdsg half damage from long range means multiply base damage by 0.5

under twa 50% extra damage to long range means multiply base damage by 1.5

whenever you have multiple passives applied you just multiply their multipliers together.

posted on September 7th, 2011, 10:56 pm

50% x 150%?

posted on September 7th, 2011, 11:01 pm

50% x 150%?

in a way that describes the way it works.

50% of 150% of base damage is

0.5*1.5*base.

which is exactly the same as saying 150% of 50% of base damage which is

1.5*0.5*base

posted on September 8th, 2011, 12:47 am

Light Quantum Pulses do 15% increased damage to non-cruisers/battleships

posted on September 8th, 2011, 6:46 am

yep, the modifiers of most weapons are factors, where order doesn't count. The few cases where additive bonuses are applied will be solved in the next patch by a defined order of application of such bonus effects.

The "inverse" of "half damage" would be "double damage", that's why the monsoon still gets a damage resistance in the end

posted on September 8th, 2011, 7:03 am

back on track tho,

what about the sabre then?
and indd I sometimes dare to try and play other races but klingons have so many ships I have no idea what to use

posted on September 8th, 2011, 10:59 am

Light Quantum Pulses do 15% increased damage to non-cruisers/battleships

could that be added to tooltips/guide? cos its not mentioned anywhere. this additional info bumps up the canaveral's effectiveness from 75% to about 80%-85% which is still under base, but not by much, canaverals are now an even safer bet against chassis 1.

does this also apply to normal quantum pulse (on the m2)?

and when you say non cruiser/bship, does that include every type other than cruiser/bship, ie non combat ships, scouts, supports, and the "special ship" assimilator?

back on track tho,

what about the sabre then?
and indd I sometimes dare to try and play other races but klingons have so many ships I have no idea what to use

sabre is interesting, if you are being attacked by lots of torps, consider getting some sabres with hyperimpulse. they will occasionally cause cover fire, dodging all weapons, and they will dodge loads of torps, and are dirt cheap. if you run them away early, they might survive. and even if they dont survive, they made the enemy waste loads of firepower on something dirt cheap, while your intreps and warpins didnt get torn up by torps.

posted on September 8th, 2011, 4:00 pm

Hm, I could add that to the guide - the Miranda II deals 15% extra to all ships that are not battleships. (and yeah, that includes special ships and support etc and noncombats). I think with the next patch we'll have a more consolidated system for adding all this important system to the tooltips - as you well know, at the moment a lot of the weapon mechanics get left out or are unclear, but that should change

posted on September 8th, 2011, 4:12 pm

cool, i wonder what other weapons do these sort of effects but arent mentioned in tooltips.

posted on September 8th, 2011, 4:25 pm

There are quite a few common ones at the moment unfortunately, not even counting more baseline 'hidden' attributes like the Torpedo, Beam, and Pulse damage per Offensive Value.

I.E. Specter (and turret) Pulses, Adapted Torpedoes etc

posted on September 9th, 2011, 5:42 am

sabre is interesting, if you are being attacked by lots of torps, consider getting some sabres with hyperimpulse. they will occasionally cause cover fire, dodging all weapons, and they will dodge loads of torps, and are dirt cheap. if you run them away early, they might survive. and even if they dont survive, they made the enemy waste loads of firepower on something dirt cheap, while your intreps and warpins didnt get torn up by torps.

Plus they are sometimes good early on especially in team games for the reasons you mentioned, expect it helps your team mates out. So few opponents expect a early Sabre spam and often surprises them, plus they are okay for harassing mining freighters and disrupting mining.