Borg Need Fewer Ships

posted on June 6th, 2011, 3:46 pm

Well, I can understand your argumentation only because I'm a little canon-nazi and seldom a friend of non-canon designs. However, Scube and Dode are very "Borgy" and I like them. Gameplaywise I don't see the need for such a huge change. Also remember the probe is small, you'd get an Intercept dode that can't even be killed by Sangs  .

posted on June 6th, 2011, 4:02 pm

@Unleash
I said in the first post that they were suggestions.  That's all they are, suggestions, not demands.  There is actually a difference between a suggestion and a demand.

@Lt. Cmdr. Marian Hope
I'm sure that with the right combination of modules, the Probe will do fine in place of the Scout Cube and Dode.  Since it would have the modules of both vessels, specific module combinations would cause it to become a support vessel.  Other module combinations would change it's range.

---

If the probe uses 2 modules with the modules being Intercept, Peripheral, EM, Vinculum, Relay, and Range, it could do quite nicely in place of the Dode and Scout Cube.  Plus, a probe relay would be smaller than a dode relay.

Intercept (limit of 2)
- Adapted Photon Graviton Torpedo (I never liked the idea of Borg using photon torpedoes)
- Melts down enemy subsystems.
- Two modules increase chance of subsystem disabling.
EM (limit of 1)
- Cloak detect while in combat
Peripheral (limit of 1)
-
Vinculum (limit of 2)
- Extra special energy
- Second module gives extra special energy to vessels equipped with holding beam.
- Vessel is now counted as support ship.
Relay (limit of 1)
- Turns probe into turret
- With Vinculum, adds tachyon ping
- With EM, allows EM shield on up to 2 probes also equipped with EM module
- With Intercept, adapted graviton torpedo to randomly disable subsystms
Range (limit of 3, first 2 ignore module slot cap)
- First module short to medium
- Second module medium to long
- Third module, long to artillery

Oh wait, it's already too easy for the Borg to adapt to the strategies.  This will just make it easier for them to do so.  I may need to give this a little more thought.

i wouldnt waste your time giving it any more thought if i was you...

have you not got a ridiculous mod to go and finish (i mean start) with units dedicated just to annihilating the borg so this won't even be an issue for you??

posted on June 6th, 2011, 4:26 pm

Coming from a regular borg player :

    [b] OH GOD NO, PLEASE I BEG OF YOU, TAKE IT BCAK![/b]

but just as a realization, dodes are the borgs only support ship, and therfore the ONLY counter against intrep spam, remove this and the borg would but swatted like flies, almost as if JANEWAY was in the fleet and i mean c'mon, the dode just got added a few patches ago, and you suggjesting that it be removed already. on top of that, the borg would need a completely new turret system now that the dode relay would be gone.

well, i thiink i've stated my point, oh and
Dodes counter Breen cruisers, cuz a subsystem diabling effect, i think
Intercept scubes counter S2s.

posted on June 6th, 2011, 4:42 pm

Coming from a regular borg player :

    [b] OH GOD NO, PLEASE I BEG OF YOU, TAKE IT BCAK![/b]

but just as a realization, dodes are the borgs only support ship, and therfore the ONLY counter against intrep spam, remove this and the borg would but swatted like flies, almost as if JANEWAY was in the fleet and i mean c'mon, the dode just got added a few patches ago, and you suggjesting that it be removed already. on top of that, the borg would need a completely new turret system now that the dode relay would be gone.

well, i thiink i've stated my point, oh and
Dodes counter Breen cruisers, cuz a subsystem diabling effect, i think
Intercept scubes counter S2s.

Remeber Styer, TCR is a Fed player, so of course he wants the counter to his spam removed!

Oh, I know!
I have a few changes in mind to 'balance' the Federation:

• Remove the Warpin
• Make Monsoons chassis level one, Intrepids level two, akiras and all the rest level 3.
• Have a new station called 'Advanced SF Engineering' - This will contain the chassis upgrades to unlock ships in the Euradi Yard.
• Decrease the defensive values of ALL Federation ships (miners included - but not the scout) by 5.
• Remove weapon and shield upgrades for the Federation.
• Add in the McKinley Yard, but all the ships inside require chassis from the Advanced Engineering.
• The Federation is only able to build the Pulse and Sensor station from the platform.
• The Constructor loses 10 def value when building turrets.
• And since the Federation are a peaceful race, the amount of combat vessel they are aloud to field is capped.

I think this should fix it just about

posted on June 6th, 2011, 4:51 pm

I already accounted for turret problem by giving the probe the relay module.  The Vinculum module would cause the probe to become a support ship.  Make it a support ship and short ranged (don't add any range modules to it) and neither the Monsoon or Intrepid can counter it.  On second thought, don't reduce the build time, the Borg already have the multiple-yards-on-top-of-each-other advantage.

I can't believe I made a thread discussing how overpowered the Borg are and wanting to nerf them, but my suggestions on how to do so would only strengthen them.

You're right redmanmark, I should just work on that mod and not worry about the other factions balance.  I withdraw my rebalance request.

PS:  It's not dedicated to annihilating just the Borg.

Nuukov, you put less thought in that change than I put in the Borg change.

posted on June 6th, 2011, 4:57 pm

Nuukov, you put less thought in that change than I put in the Borg change.

It's called 'sarcasm'

posted on June 6th, 2011, 5:03 pm

@Unleash
I said in the first post that they were suggestions.  That's all they are, suggestions, not demands.  There is actually a difference between a suggestion and a demand.

taking your side:

i've seen many of your requests and you have a track record of making requests that get mistaken for demands, you are not making a demand. which leads me on to....

taking his side:

this happens a lot because of the words you choose, it sounds like a demand, even though its not. i really think if you changed the way you wrote your requests then fewer people would think they are gruff demands.

i wouldnt waste your time giving it any more thought if i was you...

have you not got a ridiculous mod to go and finish (i mean start) with units dedicated just to annihilating the borg so this won't even be an issue for you??

how is that helping?

It's called 'sarcasm'

that isnt really helping either.

posted on June 6th, 2011, 5:11 pm

taking your side:

i've seen many of your requests and you have a track record of making requests that get mistaken for demands, you are not making a demand. which leads me on to....

taking his side:

this happens a lot because of the words you choose, it sounds like a demand, even though its not. i really think if you changed the way you wrote your requests then fewer people would think they are gruff demands.

how is that helping?

that isnt really helping either.

Sorry Myles lol, it just seems like he really believed me xD
Either way back on topic.

My personal opinion is just that TCR does seem a lot to throw out a tonn of ideas that are what I must say, somewhat biased - to the Feds.
Sure everyone has their fave races, and wants it to be a bit better - as do I (<3 Rommies + Borg <3)

But seriously, E-2 built from the Antares yard with an avatar?!
Whatever you were smoking that night, must be good stuff xD
/joking

But I do think that some of the suggestions you make TCR are a bit - extreme

The Feds are really good as they are and they have been getting loads of candy lately, time for the other races to get some love aswell - not to have it taken away from them.

posted on June 6th, 2011, 5:15 pm

Sorry Myles lol, it just seems like he really believed me xD

i meant the original sarcasm wasnt so useful.

i dont find this idea palatable either, no need to publicy ridicule him.

posted on June 6th, 2011, 5:23 pm

i meant the original sarcasm wasnt so useful.

i dont find this idea palatable either, no need to publicy ridicule him.

I guess your right, but I am not trying to ridicule him.
I am trying to show him how this idea, I am sorry but, is just silly quite frankly.

Sorry TCR, but I must speak my mind.

If you want to 'improve' Flops and model it in your own image, then just mod it as people have said
If you really really really think what you have made is good, then consult people like Dominus and the Devs.

I guess it is ok to post 'small' ideas here, liek new specials etc, but big changes will most likely just get flamed.

Sorry TCR, but that's what I think.

posted on June 6th, 2011, 5:44 pm

well borg boarding is really assimilating, so borg v borg boarding is silly logically (how do you assimilate a drone, or have 2 hive minds etc), we have to put gameplay above realism to allow borg v borg fights. and just accept that it has to be like this.

I agree that it may seem silly for Borg on Borg assimulation, But  in Voyager and TNG  both had "non Standard Borg" models. The Mini colllective who had free will in  Voyager  and then the  group of borg led by Lore  and later by Hugh(tng).  Thease examples set the precident for there being  factions whom  could have split from the  "normal" Queen hive mind  model and adopted a  differnt    org.  model of  operation.

posted on June 6th, 2011, 6:11 pm

I'm glad to see Myles already commented on the "sarcasm" from Nuukov and Redman.

Even if the ideas and proposals from TChapman500 are not always (or often not) conform with the general idea of Borg/Federation gameplay there is no need for the current hostility, taunting and ridiculing.

I know i have taunted and ridiculed persons in the past, but this goes way too far.

Personally i think non conformal ideas/suggestions are valuable because they force each of us to look at things we take for granted.

posted on June 6th, 2011, 8:02 pm

I agree that it may seem silly for Borg on Borg assimulation, But  in Voyager and TNG  both had "non Standard Borg" models. The Mini colllective who had free will in  Voyager  and then the   group of borg led by Lore  and later by Hugh(tng).  Thease examples set the precident for there being  factions whom  could have split from the  "normal" Queen hive mind  model and adopted a  differnt    org.  model of   operation.

whenever you play as borg you are taking on the role of the collective. just as when you play feds you are a federation officer. fed v fed battles shouldnt happen either. problem is this is a game, so we just have to ignore the unrealistic matchups.

posted on June 6th, 2011, 8:23 pm

Borg battles are more believable than Fed vs Fed, though. The Collective has already proven vulnerable to having groups split off into their own factions.

posted on June 6th, 2011, 9:06 pm

Borg battles are more believable than Fed vs Fed, though. The Collective has already proven vulnerable to having groups split off into their own factions.

that would be sensible if you werent playing as the collective hive mind each time. as evidenced by having queen module functions of focusing the collective on 1 ship.

those splinter groups didnt have the hive mind,

some were limited to verbal communication (lore's group).

and others had no network until voyager came along (those one's in voyager that chakotay crash landed a shuttle nearby).

and the unimatrix zero guys appeared to be normal borg drones that got separated from the hive mind, and we know they dont have a network at the start (7's group from that crash landing and she reassimilates them all forming her own mini hive). so the only group that might have a hive mind is the unimatrix zero resistance if they formed it later, after meeting up from around the galaxy.