Borg Need Fewer Ships

You feel like a battlecruiser is too weak or a race too strong? Go ahead and discuss it here :)
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posted on June 5th, 2011, 7:59 pm
So far, the only thing I've seen in this new patch that can defeat the Borg, especially with fast expand, is the Sang, Vorcha strategy.  I have a few suggestions that should make the Borg a little less powerful.

Make the scout cube the actual scout and ditch the cone, and the dode.  Make it so that the probe is built with the collective uplink and give it modules to take the place of the scout cube with different modules changing the range of the vessel and giving it more cloak detect options.  Also, the mining freighters defensive value should be reduced by at least 10 (absolute minimum).

So, in short, the probe should have the Scout Cube and Dode modules and take the job of the Dode and Scout Cubes.  And reduce the cost of the Probe by 15% and the time by 5% while you are at it.

PS:  I will make a mod to see how this works, please do not move this thread.
posted on June 5th, 2011, 8:08 pm
But the Dode is my favorite Borg ship.  :crybaby:

But anywho, just a list of ships that in the right numbers and combos can trump the Borg:

Feds:
Monsoons and Intrepids micro'd properly. I find shifting into Akiras and Excel II's later on tends to help with the issue of auto assimilators stripping crew.

Klingons:
K'vorts, Lupsets, Sangs. Can probably get away with mass Sangs and keeping them out of reach of auto assimilators.

Romulans:
Torp Rheins and Leavahls in the right numbers usually cut it unless they spam Dodes. Cehlaers also tend to work very well for me but only Mijural gets them.

Dominion:
S2's and Breen Cruisers. Undoubtedly the undisputed master of killing Borgs. S2's can be rushed like there's no tomorrow and a dozen Breen Cruisers can down even a Regen Sphere in about 10 seconds.
posted on June 5th, 2011, 8:16 pm
Have you seen the Boggz vs Arash videos? Borg are tough, I think everything is fairly balanced and no need for change at the moment.
posted on June 5th, 2011, 8:40 pm
By the way, Borg specials shouldn't be able to be used against Borg.
posted on June 5th, 2011, 9:12 pm
Why are you demanding things again TCR? Your tone is a bit rude and you talk as if you know what you are talking about, however I don't think you have conferred with high level players and thought of reasons why you might be wrong.

I think almost everyone is against such a radical change of Borg that you are proposing.
posted on June 5th, 2011, 9:13 pm
Sorry Chapman, but the Borg already have TOO FEW ships.
To tell the truth they need more ships.

I know you are a big Fed Player and hate anything else that is not assimilated by does not join the o so might Federation. But I must speak my mind and a lot of posts you make are simply to make the Feds even more stronger than they already, are and like this thread, to poop all over the other races.

I'm sorry but Fleet Ops should not just completely revolve around the Feds.
Besides, the Feds have been getting loads of ships and candy lately.
And a very welcome rebalance.

To tell the truth it is races like the Borg, Roms and maybe even the Dominion who need MORE ships.

But that is just my opinion.
posted on June 5th, 2011, 9:18 pm
Neither more nor less, just improved.
posted on June 5th, 2011, 9:32 pm
nuukov, don't forget, the klingons need more ships too! Feds have a ton of ships!
posted on June 5th, 2011, 9:49 pm
mkman wrote:nuukov, don't forget, the klingons need more ships too! Feds have a ton of ships!


Klinks have 3 yards, I think they can hold out for now. :D
posted on June 5th, 2011, 11:21 pm
Not to jump on the bandwagon against TCR, but I think optimize borg and both fed avatars are better balanced in this patch than I have ever seen them.  Klingons and Dominion are falling in line as well, and Romulans are just going through some growing pains.

For the first time in a long time, the Borg don't badly need MORE variety in their ships.  Although some reworked sphere modules would be nice  :thumbsup:
posted on June 6th, 2011, 1:21 am
Unleash Mayhem wrote:Why are you demanding things again TCR? Your tone is a bit rude and you talk as if you know what you are talking about, however I don't think you have conferred with high level players and thought of reasons why you might be wrong.

I think almost everyone is against such a radical change of Borg that you are proposing.


That's a bit harsh don't you think?

TChapman500 wrote:By the way, Borg specials shouldn't be able to be used against Borg.


Up to a point i tend to agree, auto assimilation against a Borg vessel doesn't make a lot of sense.
Perhaps an addition to the tooltip: Against rogue borg vessels these assimilation techniques are used to de-construct assimilated specimens.

As for the point of reducing the number of Borg vessels, i have to disagree. Cones are cheap and therefor perfect for early scouting while the scoutcube has the survivability to scout later in the game.

The dode also has its place.

And all that is from someone who prefers Federation, Klingon or Romulan gameplay. 
posted on June 6th, 2011, 10:23 am
well borg boarding is really assimilating, so borg v borg boarding is silly logically (how do you assimilate a drone, or have 2 hive minds etc), we have to put gameplay above realism to allow borg v borg fights. and just accept that it has to be like this.
posted on June 6th, 2011, 11:25 am
Andre27 wrote:That's a bit harsh don't you think? 

"I don't think that's a little harsh I think that's the truth." These aren't suggestions for changing or asking the Devs and other people to take a look at the balance, he is telling them to change the game for him, to his specifications, which I am offended at, let alone the people who have spent years working on this game, and about 3 years balancing this game as well as adding new content.
Soon after 3.0 came out, the Borg were constantly being updated, refined and improved. And now out of the blue TCR wants to change a lot of the effort that went into Borg early game according to him.
posted on June 6th, 2011, 12:30 pm
Borg don't need fewer ships in my opinion. They have a great variety with all the modules now and I love it. The only thing I'd throw in is that the Double Intercept Dode could need a bit tweaking. When module combinations are useful to a point, that you don't need others', one should have a look again at them. Before 3.2.4 I always built Dodes with 1Inter, 1 Regen, now the double Intercept is so useful with its special, fast speed and regeneration that one should have a look at it again.

@ TCR: I don't see the use in exchanging SCube/Probe or throwing out the Dode. The Borg wouldn't have a turret or anything against ADAI units or Sangs left.
posted on June 6th, 2011, 1:52 pm
@Unleash
I said in the first post that they were suggestions.  That's all they are, suggestions, not demands.  There is actually a difference between a suggestion and a demand.

@Lt. Cmdr. Marian Hope
I'm sure that with the right combination of modules, the Probe will do fine in place of the Scout Cube and Dode.  Since it would have the modules of both vessels, specific module combinations would cause it to become a support vessel.  Other module combinations would change it's range.




If the probe uses 2 modules with the modules being Intercept, Peripheral, EM, Vinculum, Relay, and Range, it could do quite nicely in place of the Dode and Scout Cube.  Plus, a probe relay would be smaller than a dode relay.

Intercept (limit of 2)
- Adapted Photon Graviton Torpedo (I never liked the idea of Borg using photon torpedoes)
- Melts down enemy subsystems.
- Two modules increase chance of subsystem disabling.
EM (limit of 1)
- Cloak detect while in combat
Peripheral (limit of 1)
-
Vinculum (limit of 2)
- Extra special energy
- Second module gives extra special energy to vessels equipped with holding beam.
- Vessel is now counted as support ship.
Relay (limit of 1)
- Turns probe into turret
- With Vinculum, adds tachyon ping
- With EM, allows EM shield on up to 2 probes also equipped with EM module
- With Intercept, adapted graviton torpedo to randomly disable subsystms
Range (limit of 3, first 2 ignore module slot cap)
- First module short to medium
- Second module medium to long
- Third module, long to artillery

Oh wait, it's already too easy for the Borg to adapt to the strategies.  This will just make it easier for them to do so.  I may need to give this a little more thought.
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