Borg chassis cost in new structure

posted on May 21st, 2009, 9:58 am

we might rescale the cost formulas, but reduce the connection accumulation rate for 3.0.7, i will test that out

posted on May 21st, 2009, 10:51 am

I tried a single Player game vs. the AI.

I played the dominion and fought againd 'hard' AI. I tried to build up an Armada in the backbone and let some defenders stay at the frontline. I played with the map Nemesis II.

I build up a tight defensive patter around the wormhole and rejected every attack of romulans and klingons. The FED never attacked and was always the first that was beat up from the other AI without me do do anything (maybe we should rebalance there?)

But then, it happend: 3 tactical cubes with 2 spheres, a bunch of assimilators and a normal cube came out of the wormhole and I had merely build up around 20 ships and 10 defensive platforms around the wormhole.

The tacticals were avaible pretty early in the game for the AI and I didnt see a chance against them.
I dont know how you are able to defeat them, but even me as a turtle player was able to defend my base with everything I got putting into defense before builing up an offense fleet.

[Anonymous]

posted on May 21st, 2009, 3:32 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on May 21st, 2009, 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

If currentborg costs are now as intended, with no increased offense or defense... how is any player going to play as borg...

It does not make sense. I have to be blunt here. Iw as playing optimize, built a conduction matrix, built a research fac, and still did not have enough dil to get the ships out. Played assim, and could not get out even a single scube till the enemy came at me with 10 sabres. 1 scube against 10 sabres is hardly balanced. 

Nothing was done to the borg to augment any ship strengths. It does not make sense that a scube that has offense and defesne 28/22/1 as the max for ofense would cost me 800 dil to build.

The collective connections costs at this time as well as the old cost structure are more than enough to balance out the borg.

This spike in costs for a simple SCube with NO added offense or defense makes no sense.
In 3.05a the Borg were perfectly balanced.

At this time, you cannot build even 1 scube till the other guy has at least 10 rhienns, 15 bops and warps in 2 fleets.... what is this recalculation supposed to achieve - aside from making borg gameplay completely useless!!!


FYI - AI borg still builds as usual.. that too is something queer.!!
so comparing against AI borg is now completely irrelevant. Please play as Borg and then post here!

no one who plays online sits at their base and lets borg build. Scubes and assims were the first line of defense against a very aggressive fed strat. Canaverals and the like were very effective against the borg.
At this time, if u play against borg and wait for 30 mins.. yes Ill come at you with a few scubes for sure.
but if u warp in. not even 1 borg ships will be there to greet u, and by the time there is, you will have at least 10 sabres and 1 wrp in fleet against 2 or 3 scubes. Scubes as they were - nothing new. 3 scubes are dead against this fleet.

Ill be testing this online later - hopefully dom and the rest will help me.

But imo if we are calling this balanced, then Borg mining upgrades, and the removal of borg mining stations, which currently only compensate for the delayed mining by providing us with a miner break dance as it docks, most definitely has to be on the anvil.

posted on May 21st, 2009, 3:41 pm

The costs are as intended, the lineup and orientation of Borg vessels have changed, and they have greatly increased hull regeneration rates now. but i will take a look at it for 3.0.7, however everyhting is fine

[Anonymous]

posted on May 21st, 2009, 3:54 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on May 21st, 2009, 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

we might rescale the cost formulas, but reduce the connection accumulation rate for 3.0.7, i will test that out

if u guys feel that this is intended, then fine.

But In regards to this statement, I dont see why connections are being correlated to higher costs. I can have 130 connections but I still will not have 5000 (3667 dil with weapons + basic chassis cost of 1500)dilithium for a basic cube.
So the comparison is a bit ignoratio elenchi.

Back to regular A2 for me. at least till 3.07

[funnystuffpictures]

posted on May 21st, 2009, 3:58 pm

Last edited by funnystuffpictures on May 21st, 2009, 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hey Serp! Sorry if I hurt your feelings  :(. I understand what you're saying; you're charged twice. I tried playing a game and was able to immediatly build a sphere (after 1 minute). Mayebe it's not Borg gameplay thats worthless, but scout cubes and assimilators.

posted on May 21st, 2009, 4:16 pm

as i already stated, the resource cost changes are not directly connected to connections, but to overall Borg changes. You can get higher chassis far quicker now. You could also take a look at the Probe, a solid low-cost vessel, available right from the start. Old strategies might no longer be valid, thats true.

We are thinking about rescaling the cost again and cutting down the connection rate, reducing the availability of later vessels, but the current system is not bad either, just play arround with it a little

posted on May 21st, 2009, 4:41 pm

Will do definitely 

posted on May 21st, 2009, 9:34 pm

what do you mean? the back button? that shouldn't make you let lose your resources. the resources aren't accounted until you click on the ship image to build the ship..?

My bad, Doca.  I checked it again, and you're right.   The resources aren't lost when I hit the back button.  I'll lay off the booze next time I download a patch.

posted on May 21st, 2009, 9:57 pm

If currentborg costs are now as intended, with no increased offense or defense... how is any player going to play as borg...

It does not make sense. I have to be blunt here. Iw as playing optimize, built a conduction matrix, built a research fac, and still did not have enough dil to get the ships out. Played assim, and could not get out even a single scube till the enemy came at me with 10 sabres. 1 scube against 10 sabres is hardly balanced. 

Nothing was done to the borg to augment any ship strengths. It does not make sense that a scube that has offense and defesne 28/22/1 as the max for ofense would cost me 800 dil to build.

The collective connections costs at this time as well as the old cost structure are more than enough to balance out the borg.

This spike in costs for a simple SCube with NO added offense or defense makes no sense.
In 3.05a the Borg were perfectly balanced.

At this time, you cannot build even 1 scube till the other guy has at least 10 rhienns, 15 bops and warps in 2 fleets.... what is this recalculation supposed to achieve - aside from making borg gameplay completely useless!!!


FYI - AI borg still builds as usual.. that too is something queer.!!
so comparing against AI borg is now completely irrelevant. Please play as Borg and then post here!

no one who plays online sits at their base and lets borg build. Scubes and assims were the first line of defense against a very aggressive fed strat. Canaverals and the like were very effective against the borg.
At this time, if u play against borg and wait for 30 mins.. yes Ill come at you with a few scubes for sure.
but if u warp in. not even 1 borg ships will be there to greet u, and by the time there is, you will have at least 10 sabres and 1 wrp in fleet against 2 or 3 scubes. Scubes as they were - nothing new. 3 scubes are dead against this fleet.

Ill be testing this online later - hopefully dom and the rest will help me.

But imo if we are calling this balanced, then Borg mining upgrades, and the removal of borg mining stations, which currently only compensate for the delayed mining by providing us with a miner break dance as it docks, most definitely has to be on the anvil.

I completely agree with you. During the later gameplay phase in 3.0.5 only dil and tri were the limiting factors of ship construction (enough supply centers were no problem). Now i have to wait FOREVER to get enough collective connection for 2 diamonds (180 points)! In 3.0.5 i could build them rather fast with two construction ships. My production speed was equal to the one of my friend i was playing with. Now building a fleet takes a really huge amount of time...time i dont have when playing, cause the other players will come after you with a lot of smaller ships (as serpicus already stated).
And dont tell me to use smaller ships...everything below a sphere is useless in later game phases.
So please do something about those collective connections. In 3.0.5 the borg were perfectly balanced, the old system worked well.

posted on May 21st, 2009, 11:56 pm

I've had no problem with Collective Connections.  The first, (and dirt cheap) upgrade to collective connection accumulation speed pretty much takes care of it.  If you manage to have a strong enough economy to need more, you can do the rest of the upgrades, and even just outright buy more connections.

posted on May 22nd, 2009, 12:20 am

i got to be honest the borg really are too expensive now, especially with build time now added...

i lost agaisnt fed AI on easy!!!!!! That should never happen but i could just about get 4 scoutcubes by the time they had intrepids, typhoons, warpins and sabers.... And to be fair if that was any normal player i wouldnt of even got 1 scoutcubes up...

you see the new selection system is great and the cost going up isn't necessarily a bad thing until you realise you can't build a ship unless you have ALL the resources its asking for, and then you have to wait its given build time!

before if i didnt have all the money i could atleast start outfitting my assimilator or scoutcube but now, now if i don't have all the money i can't start contrcution of the ship so basically what you have now is...

DOUBLE COST + DOUBLE TO TRIPLE BUILD TIME = ONE ULTRA NERFED BORG

as it just takes way too long to even get a scout cube...

posted on May 22nd, 2009, 1:00 am

I think what would help the balance is taking away the borg Ship Build Time. I mean with what is being charged it seems balanced.

As an Aside I think the new Perfect Logistics should be a Optimization feature.

I will wait for 3.0.7.

Please do not interpret this as a neg for all of the patch, I think the rest of it is wonderfully done, enhanced, and balanced.

Long Live Fleet Operations!
//_ Live Long and Prosper

posted on May 22nd, 2009, 3:04 am

Actually I've been testing with Dexter, and he came up with a good beginning for MP. It is fairly different then what was done 3.05a, but IT WORKS! I will write about it in the upcoming Borg Guide (to be released as part of the Mega-Guide) as I do a complete redo. Mark, MSN me and we'll talk 

posted on May 22nd, 2009, 3:49 am

I haven't Downloaded  3.0.6 yet (painfully Slow Internet connection) but I agree that  the Build times are  slow would be nice If you could recycle  ships that you don't need to gain  the resourses that you need  to build larger , more powerful ships.  Just Give the Assimulate Avitar a recycling center to Reduce ships to Resourses to be used to  build  a differnt ship.