Borg and the Nebulas

[Boggz]

posted on January 2nd, 2010, 8:13 am

Last edited by Boggz on January 2nd, 2010, 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

Alright well ...

  I don't think it's been brought up in the forums lately about the way the Borg work with the two shield-dropping nebulae.

EDIT:  Let me Clarify that I'm really talking ONLY about Early Spheres and the Nebulas here.  Later in the game the firepower exists to destroy Spheres before they can reach a nebula safely.  Early game, however, it is far more difficult to actually kill or control a sphere before it can reach a nebula and regenerate.


  Basically the main issue is early on against Spheres.  The reason is because spheres are, and meant to be: hard to kill.  On top of that they have regenerate.  So a sphere that is facing losing odds can easily hop into a purple or blue neb and be almost completely safe while it uses regen.


SOLUTIONS:
  Now ... there are other considerations.  Cubes using the nebs can just sit and wait.  blah blah blah.  Usually we all respond to this problem with:  well just attack their base or stay away from the nebs.  "If they're in the neb they're not killing yoru base".

  Well ... do we really want the solution to a nebula being a base-trade?  You go to kill their base and they will kill yours.  I really don't care for such trades as it effectively ends the game there.  The other solution is relatively reasonable: if they're in the neb they can't attack your base.  However with the Sphere it's a different story.  The early game Assimilator is much more fragile and offense-oriented than the damage-soaking sphere.  Assimilators can even be followed into the neb due to the fact that they are less defense-oriented and will miss frequently with their torps.  But the sphere will not miss and can absorb huge damage.  Ships in the early game following it in are committing suicide.

   SO ... as Yandon will doubtlessly show you in a replay soon, if there is a Mutara or Blue neb relatively near a base, the Sphere can be retreated with ease to regenerate.  And if you even lose 1 or two ships fighting that sphere before it runs, they are losing nothing while you are losing ships and resources.  This problem worsens as the next few Spheres emerge and join it.  Then the ability to kill even one becomes MUCH harder.

   I really would like the devs to even consider adjusting the effects of the nebulas.  The Nebulas were created with stock A1 and A2 in mind.  During which time the Borg used shields like everyone else.  The rules were changed and now the Nebs do something to the Borg that was not considered before. 

   I do not accept the notion that "well borg don't benefit from Green Nebs".  The effect is incomparable as Borg generally have strong weapons and can still kill in a green neb, albeit a bit slower.  This is a battle-ender and if you've failed to kill that first sphere before it reaches the neb, it's got a free ticket to sit there and regen until it can attack again.

   Help me out here: this is a common problem and a very frustrating one.  I feel it can be countered, yes, but really it's an issue that leaves a very bad taste in a person's mouth.

posted on January 2nd, 2010, 8:36 am

I had some funny things to say, but I'm tired.  I should really be in bed.  So in short, I agree.   It really sucks when one of those nebs are near a resource node.  Then the borg player just attacks and retreats back to it while saying "I amz teh gratist playa' inz ze wurld!"

I was going to write some solutions I came up with, but I've found major flaws in all of them, so I'm no help.  

All I can say is I've experienced the same thing.  And it really isn't fun.    

posted on January 2nd, 2010, 8:42 am

Glad the first post was in agreement.

  It's really not SO much of a problem with early game vessels other than the Sphere.  The Assimilator can be destroyed generally before it reaches the neb, and if it's barely alive it can be followed it due to torp miss rate.  Once it's in it will be a long while before it's regenerated enough to attack again at that.

  The Sphere early on is much tougher, never misses, and regens rapidly in the neb.  Even if the neb is a decent distance away from the base, it requires considerable firepower to kill the sphere before it can get there.

  Anyway ... it IS annoying to face that and realize that there really is no good way of fixing it.  I don't have a good solution

posted on January 2nd, 2010, 8:44 am

actually ... considering that my main issue is simply with Borg being able to repair while they're essentially unassailable, why don't we consider the idea of having Mutara and the Blue nebula prevent Borg from regenerating their hulls?  That way they can still use them to escape and be safe, but they can't just sit there with impunity until they are healed.  That way they are still advantageous for Borg use but cannot be used in such a lame manner.

posted on January 2nd, 2010, 8:45 am

I had a decent idea in one of yandonman's many posts.

posted on January 2nd, 2010, 4:03 pm

Iv never had this problem, iv seen people do this but iv never seen it as a problem, borg cant really fight a fleet while in a green nebula, when they regen i use that opportunity to build more ships and lure it out and bring it down before it can retreat back to the nebula.

I think borg are already under powered in early game because it takes long enough to build a sphere and by the time it has been build the borg player has most likely lost alot of resources from attacks and perhaps even lost the sphere hes has just built.  In order to combat that my guess is you would have to build scoutcubes probes ect, but i have never even seen that tactic used by a player so there are very few skilled borg players anyway so as i said i don't see the blue nebula as being a problem.


(Build 4 siege cruisers and use the artillery special on the sphere and watch it disappear)

posted on January 2nd, 2010, 5:39 pm

I'd like to see you get 4 seige cruisers before a sphere is bearing down on your base

posted on January 2nd, 2010, 5:49 pm

I'd like to see you get 4 seige cruisers before a sphere is bearing down on your base

Wurd.

  Just cause you haven't seen it, Eraldo, doesn't mean it can't happen.  I assure you that with the early-game Sphere this is a major problem if the map allows it.

  And Seige Cruisers are nowhere NEAR possible by the time the first Sphere comes out.
  Yes, Borg CAN fight in Green Nebs, it's just harder.  Other factions CANNOT fight Borg in Purple or Blue Nebs. 

posted on January 3rd, 2010, 3:59 pm

Wurd.

  Just cause you haven't seen it, Eraldo, doesn't mean it can't happen.  I assure you that with the early-game Sphere this is a major problem if the map allows it.

   And Seige Cruisers are nowhere NEAR possible by the time the first Sphere comes out.
   Yes, Borg CAN fight in Green Nebs, it's just harder.  Other factions CANNOT fight Borg in Purple or Blue Nebs. 

I played a borg player the other day on a map with blue nebula, i suppressed him with breen cruisers and built up to seige cruisers and thats the end of that chapter, borg are really bad in a 1on1.

posted on January 3rd, 2010, 7:12 pm

YOU?  Built Breen Cruisers?  NO WAY ....

  Breen Cruisers won't be the same in the next patch.  Massing torpedo kiters against Borg cannot be the only solution.  Likewise, just because YOU have not had this problem does not mean it's not a problem.  If those Borg Spheres attacked you the ran to a Mutara to hide, you'd have to wait for them to regen fully and come out.

  My guess is they didn't do that.  They didn't use the tactic I'm describing here, you didn't have to experience it, and you don't know what this is about. 

  I guarantee that if YOU had this happen to you ... you'd quit.

posted on January 4th, 2010, 2:33 pm

YOU?  Built Breen Cruisers?  NO WAY ....

   Breen Cruisers won't be the same in the next patch.  Massing torpedo kiters against Borg cannot be the only solution.  Likewise, just because YOU have not had this problem does not mean it's not a problem.  If those Borg Spheres attacked you the ran to a Mutara to hide, you'd have to wait for them to regen fully and come out.

  My guess is they didn't do that.  They didn't use the tactic I'm describing here, you didn't have to experience it, and you don't know what this is about. 

  I guarantee that if YOU had this happen to you ... you'd quit.

Your guess would be wrong then because it tryed, it got there the first time and regenerated a little but by the time it came out the 2nd time i did not make it back. 

Maybe you just don't have the skill to play this game because borg have the same issue when facing an enemy ship in green nebula, strange that this is the first topic on this. it is currently balanced in this sense .... deal with it.

posted on January 4th, 2010, 2:47 pm

No you deal with it, why do you think your one voice against many is correct? Can't you accept that you could be wrong in this case?

posted on January 4th, 2010, 5:33 pm

Your guess would be wrong then because it tryed, it got there the first time and regenerated a little but by the time it came out the 2nd time i did not make it back. 

  Haha .... Oh Eraldo ... Did you get too much coal in your stocking this Christmas?    Is that why you've been so disagreeable as of late?


  Look:  this can be a serious issue.  You and your Breen Cruiser-spam may not have had it.  Maybe you weren't playing a skilled opponent who used this ability well.  Who knows.  You are not the end-all.  This is an issue whether you've experienced it or not.

Maybe you just don't have the skill to play this game because borg have the same issue when facing an enemy ship in green nebula, strange that this is the first topic on this. it is currently balanced in this sense .... deal with it.

  Really?  You went there?  If I could go ghetto-LA-black-girl-from-Compton on you ... I totally would.  Maybe I suck too much to stop this tactic.  You're right.  But since you ALWAYS lose to me, Dear Eraldo ... what does that say about you? 

  I've already explained:  Green nebulas are NOT the same thing.  In a green Nebula it is harder for Borg to defeat shielded ships, yes, but it is NOT impossible.  In fact there are MANY ways to beat them.  Auto-assimilate from Assimilators will strip them of their crew, and an early game Sphere will still have enough firepower to kill destroyers. 
  Mutara Nebulas remove 3/4 of most ship's defences.  Only Breen have about 50% hull 50% shield strength.  When they go into a Nebula and lose shields they have a better chance of surviving.  Klingons, Feds, Romulans, and non-Breen-Dominion have about 1/3 hull and 2/3 shields.  They get slaughtered.

   
  Some day we can play and I will show you. 

posted on January 4th, 2010, 9:04 pm

   Haha .... Oh Eraldo ... Did you get too much coal in your stocking this Christmas?   :rolleyes:  Is that why you've been so disagreeable as of late?


   Look:  this can be a serious issue.  You and your Breen Cruiser-spam may not have had it.  Maybe you weren't playing a skilled opponent who used this ability well.  Who knows.  You are not the end-all.  This is an issue whether you've experienced it or not.

   :lol: Really?  You went there?  If I could go ghetto-LA-black-girl-from-Compton on you ... I totally would.  Maybe I suck too much to stop this tactic.  You're right.  But since you ALWAYS lose to me, Dear Eraldo ... what does that say about you? 

   I've already explained:  Green nebulas are NOT the same thing.  In a green Nebula it is harder for Borg to defeat shielded ships, yes, but it is NOT impossible.  In fact there are MANY ways to beat them.  Auto-assimilate from Assimilators will strip them of their crew, and an early game Sphere will still have enough firepower to kill destroyers. 
  Mutara Nebulas remove 3/4 of most ship's defences.  Only Breen have about 50% hull 50% shield strength.  When they go into a Nebula and lose shields they have a better chance of surviving.  Klingons, Feds, Romulans, and non-Breen-Dominion have about 1/3 hull and 2/3 shields.  They get slaughtered.

   
   Some day we can play and I will show you.   :thumbsup:

Im not going to bother with this thread anymore but yeah DEAL WITH IT, unless the devs do something about this which ihope they don't then that is what you will have to do.

We have played each other just once in a 2v2 we have never completed any other game and you beat me by using the griffin sensor jammer bug, you de-cloaked on top of my fleet and destroyed it, you bitch and moan about people using other bugs but use them your self.

So yeah keep crying....

posted on January 4th, 2010, 9:19 pm

Im not going to bother with this thread anymore but yeah DEAL WITH IT, unless the devs do something about this which ihope they don't then that is what you will have to do.

We have played each other just once in a 2v2 we have never completed any other game and you beat me by using the griffin sensor jammer bug, you de-cloaked on top of my fleet and destroyed it, you bitch and moan about people using other bugs but use them your self.

So yeah keep crying....

Eraldo... please.
i guess boggz wasnt really nice either, but this is just not ok.
Only if Boggz used a bug in ONE game gainst you, it doesnt mean he always uses bugs and exploits.
look, you have your opinion, boggz has his opinion, everybody has one. you cant just say that ones opinion is wrong only because you didnt experience the problem.