The Purpose of Turrets: Chapter 1

posted on March 24th, 2010, 6:26 am

Well I was thinking about a lot of the discussion that has been surrounding turrets and more frequently "Turtling".  I'd like to bring up a discussion as to what individuals truly think Turrets are FOR.

  BTW:  Turtling, is the process where a player builds a critical number of turrets that can no longer be defeated by conventional means.  Of course it can always be defeated ... Turrets cannot move; but there are so many turrets as to be impenetrable to all but the most focused and tactical assaults.



  Ok ... so what I'd love to hear is what EXACTLY people themselves think of when they place turrets.  DO NOT go off on some wild tangent or blah blah blah ... this is strictly an experiment to see what people tend to use turrets for.

I will begin.


  I (The Great Boggz ) use turrets as an initiative deterrent.  Sound pretentious enough?   Allow me to explain:

  When I set up an expansion, I know it is a juicy target.  It's got defenseless miners sitting there asking to be gobbled up.  Anything that attacks an undefended expansion know that, unless I send ships to intervene, it can ultimately destroy the ENTIRE expansion. 
  Thus, I place a turret.
  The turret acts as a ticking clock.  The clock says: "fine, go at my miners, but if you stay longer than xx:xx, I'm gonna destroy a ship or two".  That gives an incentive for the enemy not to stay too long or trade ships for miners.

  I sometimes hear people say that the Turrets now are too hard to destroy.  I also here people say they cannot destroy anything.  While the first I would agree with for the Federation and Klingon turrets, the second I would agree with for the Dominion and Romulan Turrets.  Thus I pose this theory to the FleetOps online community:

 
  "Perhaps Turrets are not SUPPOSED to repulse attacks."


  Perhaps instead, Turrets are supposed to act as merely the deterrent that allows you to move the majority of their warships elsewhere.  I see people place a Dominion Phaser turret or two and then run off and leave the exp.  When the exp gets steamrolled they say "OMFG THE DOM TURRETS SUCK SO MUCH ROLFCOPTERLAWLERSKATES".  Perhaps they should have left ships there as well and perhaps even made a shipyard to repair the defending vessels ...



I really would like to hear what others choose to use turrets for.  IF, however, you say that you like to play Mayson because his turrets are the most balanced ... I will find you ...

posted on March 24th, 2010, 7:46 am

I mostly use turrets as a means to hold off a few enemy ships at an expansion until I can get my fleet in. As such I rarely build more then one turret per moon unless I'm the Klingons or Borg, since I only need one per two moons at times. Naturally I must say Mayson's artillery turrets are cool for their range... but they really can't hold off much unless you mass them in clusters which in my opinion is a waste of resources that could be used for a mobile fleet.

posted on March 24th, 2010, 9:57 am

I have to agree. I use turrets to get me the necessary seconds to send my defense fleet there.

One thing though ... i believe that SarTrek-turrets are intentionally meant not only to give one some time until help arrives (which is hours or days in ST universe, time in which battles are over!) but to really defend critical targets more effevtively than any ship could do (otherwise there was no need for turrets, never). An expansion is not a ST typical "critical target", rather is Cardasia Prime, where we see a belt of heavy turrets, that dish out pretty heavy damage. Such defenses are not built in one day, and not in a newly entered warzone within the short duration of a FO game.

I'd consider all FO-turrets as deterrent turrets and would like to see "real" turrets in endgame only, whith a build-time of 5 mins each. I'm not against turtling in a long lasting huge game, where forces to even crush belts of turrets are available, but i'm clealy opposed to the possibility of turtling in usual FO games.

posted on March 24th, 2010, 1:36 pm

Maysons turrets are the only good ones lol. Actually (not that im that good) i typically use turrets to make someone think twice about attacking my expansion or to force them to mirco their ships while i bring in reinforcements.

[Anonymous]

posted on March 24th, 2010, 2:17 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on March 24th, 2010, 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

for me, if you place a single mayson turret by a moon set, enemy will leave that set alone for most of the game, until they actually are trying to attack.  they seem to help hold off slow moving targets, and deter raids. IMO a couple of pulse cannons, and a torpedo launcher can protect a mining set for most of the game.

[shadow=red,left]the rest is somewhat off topic [/shadow]

Unless they really want that set that is.  I once put three torpedo platforms by a mining set near a borg player, and the borg player never had a chance to expnd because they couldn't spare the time and ships to defeate all three.  then of course, i blockaded them in their corner, but that only lasts until they get cubes.  I guess he really wanted that moon set...

(The outcome of that game was interesting however.  you would be suprised at the amount of damage one of those turrets can do while I wait for my fleet of 30+ ships come in.  I forced a retreate but i decided to follow him and we both lost all our combat vessels in the process  this was a 2v2 game however, so I did win eventually )

posted on March 24th, 2010, 3:45 pm

I'm pretty much of the same opinion Boggz (of that I think you know too).

Turrets can be used effectively as discouragement to at least dissuade people from harassing (and sometimes even stop klingon decloak harassment due to the vulnerable time) and thus mitigate losses. The more turrets, the less likely an opponent will attack that location. In general I use turrets to buy me time for my fleet to arrive. Many people don't target the stations or mining vessels, and instead go straight for the turret. If they do that, chance are that my fleet will make it in time to cut them off, and I'll have taken next to no losses.

Turrets can also be used at chokepoints to force your opponent to do things they would not normally do - such as retreat when they have the advantage, or try to make a mad rush in and have 1 ship at a time torn apart. They can also be used to reinforce your own fleets, so that you have some background fire to support your constantly retreating forces.

All said, Dominion and Romulan turrets are indeed craptastic (Dominion ones more because of their passive I think  ), and the Devs were aware of this in 3.1.1 - naturally both turrets get some loving... and I just can't wait for the Romie changes to arrive 

posted on March 24th, 2010, 5:01 pm

To me, turrets ARE for turtling.....because that's what I have to do to get Cubes.....then when I have about 10+ Cubes, I MIGHT attack.  My personal RTS strat is don't attack unless you can completely annihilate the enemy with minimal losses.  So I stay in my little corner and build and build and build and won't come out unless it is to blow someone off the map.  Though this strat doesn't work versus everyone, it does vs some and its fun for me....and that's what games are for....to have fun.

I will mention this though.....I do agree with everyone else about what turrets are supposed to be for.  I just don't use them as such because they are too resource intense and take to long to build/move a construction ship to build them.....for Borg at least.

posted on March 24th, 2010, 5:09 pm

What was the point of this thread again?

posted on March 24th, 2010, 5:20 pm

What was the point of this thread again?

To get people's opinions on what turrets are intended for in game.

posted on March 24th, 2010, 6:22 pm

What was the point of this thread again?

  Read the title, you tit .


  Nice to hear that most of you agree on the idea that turrets are mainly a deterrent.  I've been seeing many people think of them more as end-all things and complain that they never destroy anything.


  Klingon Turrets are really the only ones that I ever see DESTROY ships because the dps rate is so high and so spaced out.  A person may not realize that the second volley is going to bust their shields down and the third will destroy them as they retreat .  Rommies and Dommies (and to a lesser extent Fed) turrets have higher rates of fire and can be moved away from more easily.


  I'm glad to hear that the weaker turrets will be given some love.  I'm excited to see them fulfill those functions a deterrent role a little more functionally.  Right now a Romulan Helev turret is only pulse armed and weaker than an Akira .

posted on March 24th, 2010, 9:19 pm

I read the title, you titty.   But it was clear that you trying to make a statement about how to use turrets correctly, and were just being coy.

I think most people who play competitively online realize that turrets are for deterrence, and not to stock up on them or put them into pretty rows.  Those who play only against the AI will use them a lot because they are in fact very efficient against an enemy that comes straight to them in a long row.

Those who started off with the latter and are learning to play the former will inevitably go to what has been so easy and familiar for them.  I'm sure the first couple of times they'll complain that their enemy didn't walk right into the turret and get themselves killed.  But most will eventually figure it out.

What I'm trying to say is be mindful of your target audience (newer players who don't understand how turtling hurts them in a competitive match), and be careful that your enthusiasm doesn't get taken the wrong way.

Everything you've said is completely correct, of course.   This could sort of be lumped up with choke points, but we've also seen turrets be useful as part of a forward staging area.  In one of the games I recorded, 3 fed phaser turrets and a yard with ally repair really made the game as the opposing force got grounded up by these phasers, while the defending ships would repair.  So strategy wise, if you're attacking turrets, try to do it while there are no defending ships.  The attacks from the larger turrets really add up in a longer engagement.

Also, consider what's being guarded by that turret.  In the game with boggz, stardust, and ray; ray had taken the center tritanium moons and had two fed turrets.  The opposing team kept trying to attack that center, which would then be defended.  Tritanium is nice, but it is no where near as vital as dilithium, the bottom team kept attacking a non essential target, but it also informed the top team where attacks were going to come from.  Boggz, Star, and Ray were able to plan attacks on the other side, and didn't take many losses to critical stations.  I think turrets act as some kind of lightning rod for some people, as they feel they have to attack that area, because the enemy deemed it important enough to put a turret there.

So if there's a heavily fortified area that has many turrets, just go somewhere else that's not fortified, as no one can cover all their bases perfectly.  

posted on March 24th, 2010, 9:36 pm

If there only were style bonuses for building geometric patterns

posted on March 24th, 2010, 10:05 pm

My "unoficial turret" strategy, is to mostly focus defense on one place (an expansion) as a destracter to my enemy. I find that people are usualy stupid to focus all their attacks on my defended areas more because they are soo scared of it. Its also good because when you harass, and have a fleet on your tail, they will usualy think twice about attacking. Turrets to me are mostly to take pressure off defending so I can attack and focus on other things. You feal more secure and can attack more effectively.

posted on March 24th, 2010, 10:42 pm

To me, turrets ARE for turtling.....because that's what I have to do to get Cubes.....then when I have about 10+ Cubes, I MIGHT attack.  My personal RTS strat is don't attack unless you can completely annihilate the enemy with minimal losses.  So I stay in my little corner and build and build and build and won't come out unless it is to blow someone off the map.  Though this strat doesn't work versus everyone, it does vs some and its fun for me....and that's what games are for....to have fun.

There is no kill like over kill. Also i get mad if my turrets dont like up right... if im playing single player ill use the map editor to force them to align

posted on March 26th, 2010, 5:17 am

I look at turrets as both a force multiplier and a deterent to an attacking force . Deterent wise they  can be used to  deter  attacks on a mining outposts,  miners and other  outposts.  When properly  designed and properly placed a  Turret  Feild can  force  a opponent  to either bypass that specfic  location, or  force them to take time to  destroy the turrets, while  they take damage  to their ships as they move through it . As a force multilpierside Turrets  are able to augment a  fleets strength at a critical choke point .  Turrets can be sacrificed  to allow you fleet to retreat while slowing up the attacking fleet . Turrets  can be used as Force multiplier  for starbases, as  the extra weaponds platforms gives  you  an  extra  layer  of overlapping fire coverage  on starbases . plus the  added advantage on the reduction of  fireing time lag between when your you starbase is  fireing weaponds  and rechargeing weaponds. the turrets  are  allowing you to keep supressing fires  on an attacking opponent. They can be used to turtle aginst an opponent,  on occaisions I have used them to  keep  supressive fires on  shipyards  while allowing my ships to R/R at my shipyards. Cost wise it is Cheaper to lose a turret  than a ship .If you  have the extra  resourses to spend while your  shipyards crank out  new ships and repair your  damaged ships.  The way  I use them is to  pick a place  just out side of the range of the star base ,or turret I am attacking .Then I set  my  shipyards to dump my ships to a point  behind that line of turrets. then I place several turrets  in the  turret feild I have planned. While the constructor  is building ,the ships I have prestaged  attack  the location,while the ships are  attacking  I monitor the ships healths . If the ships are taking severe damage I  recall  the damaged ships .If the conctructors are  done  with the turret feild I walk the line forward if the  target is destroyed , or  rebuild more turrets in the same location to keep  weaponds fire on the intended  target.