Testing Klingon strats - improving my Klingon game

posted on September 7th, 2010, 2:40 am

If you want to test a 'just for fun' BO, I suggest this.

One constructor does the normal mining setup.  The other one...builds a second starbase.  Both starbases spit out miners as fast as possible, and turn the ones not set to mining into K'ting'a.  Fight the entire battle with only K'ting'a.  Try to win.  Think of it as a new Avatar (though i suggest using Taq, for the cheaper miners)...the Poverty avatar.  Feel free to do tech upgrades, though.  K'ting'a with both engine upgrades are actually very, very fast.

Much as I love that stunt, I'll never pretend it's good.  It's just neat.

posted on September 7th, 2010, 5:53 am

Well, in that case Dom, guess I'm going to have to start playing with some more BOs so can get them posted and see what comes out of it.

I dont know about you guys, but my usual build order, i get my dilithium moon at the same time as my yard, i then build the kbeajq and kvort extension, i build the other mining, and the reaserch station

usaually when i get my second kbeaj and first kvort out (3 ships) with one of there specials pretty quickly, and i go harass, and this seems to work pretty well

This is one of the problems, most people have the same basic start and there is a lack of experimenting going on with the first few minutes of a game.  You see it on the replays, and you will hear Yandonman saying things like "Looks like the regular start for the Feds" or "Oh, what is he doing go for Tri first?"  Doing things differently is considered to be doing things wrong... and in many cases it may be, possibly because it is dangerous to deviate from the most optimal BOs.  So, what would be good is if people experiment and try and find different BOs, otherwise this game just ends up like StarCrack where it stops being about the fun and just about clicks per second and following optimal play strategies (note: I think the devs do a good job of avoiding this happening in how the game is designed).

If you want to test a 'just for fun' BO, I suggest this.

One constructor does the normal mining setup.  The other one...builds a second starbase.  Both starbases spit out miners as fast as possible, and turn the ones not set to mining into K'ting'a.  Fight the entire battle with only K'ting'a.  Try to win.  Think of it as a new Avatar (though i suggest using Taq, for the cheaper miners)...the Poverty avatar.  Feel free to do tech upgrades, though.  K'ting'a with both engine upgrades are actually very, very fast.

Much as I love that stunt, I'll never pretend it's good.  It's just neat.

Now this looks like fun.  Could be good to use against a newbie who is just learning the game.  Would give them a good chance of winning.

posted on September 7th, 2010, 10:37 am

actually a well executed ktinga rush is devestating against anything but borg. or turtling feds. they can cut off your mining real early, and dont even bother trying to expand, u wont have the ships to defend both. especially since ktinga can cloak.

maybe if we removed the ktinga's cloak.

or made the ktinga cloak a researchable special. doesnt seem to me like their miners would run around with cloaks by default.

posted on September 7th, 2010, 11:09 am

actually a well executed ktinga rush is devestating against anything but borg. or turtling feds. they can cut off your mining real early, and dont even bother trying to expand, u wont have the ships to defend both. especially since ktinga can cloak.

maybe if we removed the ktinga's cloak.

or made the ktinga cloak a researchable special. doesnt seem to me like their miners would run around with cloaks by default.

Well, they suddenly realize they have weapons on-board at the same point they discover they have a cloak installed... must all be hidden under the cargo containers.

posted on September 7th, 2010, 2:32 pm

actually a well executed ktinga rush is devestating against anything but borg. or turtling feds. they can cut off your mining real early, and dont even bother trying to expand, u wont have the ships to defend both. especially since ktinga can cloak.

maybe if we removed the ktinga's cloak.

or made the ktinga cloak a researchable special. doesnt seem to me like their miners would run around with cloaks by default.

Quite good against Borg too . Doesn't stop that strategy from having strong counters in each faction, and other ways of dealing with it too 

This is one of the problems, most people have the same basic start and there is a lack of experimenting going on with the first few minutes of a game.  You see it on the replays, and you will hear Yandonman saying things like "Looks like the regular start for the Feds" or "Oh, what is he doing go for Tri first?"  Doing things differently is considered to be doing things wrong... and in many cases it may be, possibly because it is dangerous to deviate from the most optimal BOs.  So, what would be good is if people experiment and try and find different BOs, otherwise this game just ends up like StarCrack where it stops being about the fun and just about clicks per second and following optimal play strategies (note: I think the devs do a good job of avoiding this happening in how the game is designed).

The guide has many "optimized" build orders (about 5-8 per faction), however many people choose just one, and then beat it to death (partially because they see everybody else do it too). This leads to me getting some frantic PMs and IM messages where people ask me what to do in a certain situation... and that's when I'm forced to quote off the guide and explain things even if it has been written up there for months.  . You can lead a horse to water...

posted on September 7th, 2010, 2:44 pm

Quite good against Borg too . Doesn't stop that strategy from having strong counters in each faction, and other ways of dealing with it too 

what are good counters to kt rush?

posted on September 7th, 2010, 3:02 pm

Well, what I described doesn't count as a K'ting'a rush, at least not in the classic sense.  It's pure K'ting'a, with no modern warships backing it up.  However, for counters?  Monsoon can break unleveled k'ting'a fast.  Sabre aren't bad against them either.  Rhienn eat them alive, and Shrike turn them into one big joke.  Bugs do okay against them, but s-2 are nightmares of destruction to them.  Scoutcubes or dodecs with interception modules do excellent against them, but assimilators can strip their crew pretty easily, and their damage is so low that it take a lot of them before any borg ship has to pay attention.

All in all, it's weak, but neat.  Now, if you somehow get the economy to be running 4 Kahless Station pumping those relics out, your enemy may want to worry.  They're cheap and build fast, so you can flood space with them.

posted on September 7th, 2010, 3:12 pm

what are good counters to kt rush?

They are all in the guide, but here's a quick list of some of the strong counters.

Shrike Spam, Frigate Start
Intrepid Start
Bug Spam
K'Vort Start

Some weaker counters can be Warp-In Hybrid
Cavalry Charge (in fact, most of the Klingon strategies are ok against K't'inga Rush because you can pop your own mining)
Rhienn Spam

posted on September 7th, 2010, 3:59 pm

I like fast kvort and then double expanding

posted on September 7th, 2010, 4:08 pm

i doubt intrep start can hurt kt rush, the idea of kt rush is to kill your miners, not your ships. the intreps wont finish off the kt before they can cloak away.

posted on September 7th, 2010, 4:17 pm

Haha if you look at one of the deleted scenes in ST:XI you will see Nero surrendering to the Ktinga rush

posted on September 7th, 2010, 4:20 pm

those were klingon "warbirds" not ktinga.

dont confuse anything in jjtrek's basterdised fake canon as real trek.

posted on September 7th, 2010, 4:26 pm

i doubt intrep start can hurt kt rush, the idea of kt rush is to kill your miners, not your ships. the intreps wont finish off the kt before they can cloak away.

You'll have an Intrepid, 2 yards with another Intrepid just a little ways away from being built, and if you were intelligent, a turret guarding one moon. In the time it takes the K't'inga to attack you, you'll either be able to destroy one, capture it when cloaking (or reduce the crew of those other Klingon vessels). Try it out like I have perhaps . The great advantage of K't'inga Rush is to swarm an opponent without engaging in combat. Fed stuff is built for anti-swarm. Stronger larger miners, even offense/defense, good turrets, and faster constructors.

posted on September 7th, 2010, 4:36 pm

those were klingon "warbirds" not ktinga.

dont confuse anything in jjtrek's basterdised fake canon as real trek.

No Nero gets Ktinga rushed!

You are thinking of the Kobayashi Maru. Starfleet must have called them Klingon Warbirds as they didn't have sufficient intelligence on the specific classes of klingon ships

posted on September 7th, 2010, 4:46 pm

You'll have an Intrepid, 2 yards with another Intrepid just a little ways away from being built, and if you were intelligent, a turret guarding one moon.

thats not intrep start, thats intrep spam from 2 yards.

intrep start is just any strat where ur first ship is an intrep.

No Nero gets Ktinga rushed!

You are thinking of the Kobayashi Maru. Starfleet must have called them Klingon Warbirds as they didn't have sufficient intelligence on the specific classes of klingon ships

jj trek km had warbirds too

all klink ships in jj trek were klingon warbirds:
Klingon warbird - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki

in the background section it says that the ones that ambushed the narada were warbirds too.

the ktinga doesnt belong in jj trek as jj trek isnt real trek. jj trek has its own canon of different stuff.