Testing Klingon strats - improving my Klingon game

posted on September 6th, 2010, 1:27 pm

Been trying Klingons for the past couple of weeks trying to improve my game with them.  I've even receive some compliments along the lines of "Come on, you're not THAT bad" 

I feel the Klingons are quite a challenge due to their weaker than average shields and the need to be aggressive to keep up your supplies.  The need to tech up early if possible is also important as their low level ships soon get outclassed by other races.

So, i tested a few things out in 5 minute games to see what could be done in that time.  Here are the results.

Test: 5 minutes limit, no expansion aimed for.

Low tech route
Strat: Only Field Yard shipyard built.  Pump ships.
Result:
2 K'beajQ
1 B'rel
1 Kvort almost complete
Field Research built
Torpedo drone researched
Conclusion: Going double yard may give you slightly more ships in 5 mins but resource crunch would probably stop you getting your Field research up.  Of course, games usually last longer than 5 mins so double yard could be worthwhile in the longer run.  A decent start especially for 1on1.

Battle Yard rush (or rush to Battle yard)
Strat: Only build the Field Yard node, skip the actual yards themselves and move straight to Battle Yard. 
Result:
1 Sang
1 Qaw'Duj
60 seconds to Vor'cha
Armoury built
Qaw'Duj first level special researched
Conclusion:  Less ships that the low tech route but not far behind and better quality ships.  Against a defensive opponent, on a large map, or in an allied game i would think this variant is a good choice as you don't waste resources on low level ships and skip straight to the big guns.

Early Mixed tech
Strat: Get mixed tech as soon as possible.
2 minutes to go on getting alien technology
1 K'beajQ almost ready (could have been quicker)
1 B'rel 30 seconds away (could have been quicker)
No Field research done (starved for Tri)
Conclusion: Not a good strat for 1on1 unless on a very big map, and perhaps more importantly, can't be done without an ally.  Could have done better by putting up Tri yard before Di has had a glut of Di but short on Tri.  Perhaps one of the few (or only) Klingon strats where going for tri first would be the best route.  Going double mining at the start would delay getting the mixed tech yard up.
Not much could have been done to get mixed tech earlier, a few seconds improvement at best.
Went with Federation mixed tech and discovered a nice surprise - could get the E'Djen  , not a standard buildable Klingon ship which has a great special (scrambling probe) useful both early and late game, especially against cloakers or fast ships (90 second build time, 26/22/9 stats).  Its Elite passive I discovered makes it as fast as a B'rel.  It also have nice weapons.  You still need to build a shipyard anyway to get a repair facility and get some ships out early while you are waiting for the research.

Anyway, thats all.  If anyone would care to coment on these or other possible Klingon strats would be interesting in hearing.  Also, what do Klingon players think of the E'Djen?

posted on September 6th, 2010, 1:41 pm

fast battle yard works better for martok due to cheap battle yard.

also if u delay the qawduj research u can afford another vorcha.

also dont be afraid to make a qawduj from your kahless station.

also battle yard rush wont work in a 1v1 unless your opponent is really defensive. you will need field yard ships.

in team games vorcha rush can work.

of coruse early edjen can only work in team games lol. but it might work well.

but then again u have a fed player on your side which should give u power.

posted on September 6th, 2010, 2:25 pm

E'djen is really nice I love it its fast and strong.

posted on September 6th, 2010, 2:34 pm

fast battle yard works better for martok due to cheap battle yard.

Ah, should have said, all tests were made with Martok and on the same map for consistency.

posted on September 6th, 2010, 2:50 pm

Interesting - nice to see someone experimenting with build orders 

All I can offer are the strategies posted on the guide, of which a few of these resemble those there somewhat closely

posted on September 6th, 2010, 3:20 pm

"Interesting - nice to see someone experimenting with build orders"

What would you suppose is the best approach for a proper experiment? I tried to match my speed building Kvorts against my speed building T15 once. The actual match then turned out differently
How much excess ressources should one plan if playing against the AI (just for starting strategies)?

posted on September 6th, 2010, 3:25 pm

What would be good is if the strats sections (of the guide) could be opened up so people could post their BOs.  I know we have this section of the forums for discussion, but the wiki for the moment at least is locked to us poor mortals.

We could possibly have a sub-forum of Strategy called Build Orders where people could post.  Have a posting policy for titles something like:

, ,
eg: Klingon, Martok, Early Battle Yard

People can then easily find starting strats relating to the race they are interested in playing as.

posted on September 6th, 2010, 3:28 pm

How much excess ressources should one plan if playing against the AI (just for starting strategies)?

Eh? What does excess resources have to do with either the AI or starting strategies?

posted on September 6th, 2010, 3:35 pm

"Interesting - nice to see someone experimenting with build orders"

What would you suppose is the best approach for a proper experiment? I tried to match my speed building Kvorts against my speed building T15 once. The actual match then turned out differently
How much excess ressources should one plan if playing against the AI (just for starting strategies)?

Well, as always, the human side is needed  :sweatdrop:. The build order can be developed in IA, but it must be tested in the fire of warfare . Keeping an eye out for passives and the like will be extremely useful. It's not enough to have a build order, but one needs to apply that build order to the correct situation. I.E. - T-15's have Ablative Armor and strong pulse weaponry, which will demolish K'Vorts once they come out, but if K'Vorts can be used quickly enough before the T-15's come out (earliest is about 4-5 minutes), then you may win before that happens . Consequently, I'd find a good playing partner and have tons of matches to test each available strategy. I know that's what I do  :blush:

Excess resources is a tricky situation - it depends what type of build order you are trying to accomplish. If you are planning on a rapid tech up, you need to stockpile generally ... or get that one super ship out, and then hope that it will buy you time (like the current Vor'cha Rush and some other fairly aggressive strategies on the guide). If you are just meandering at tier 1-2, then running out completely is ok... unless you are trying to save up some for turrets. I generally have close to zero dilithium most times, with a few hundred tritanium stockpiled for research purposes. If I'm constantly producing something, I'm happy

What would be good is if the strats sections (of the guide) could be opened up so people could post their BOs.  I know we have this section of the forums for discussion, but the wiki for the moment at least is locked to us poor mortals.

We could possibly have a sub-forum of Strategy called Build Orders where people could post.  Have a posting policy for titles something like:

, ,
eg: Klingon, Martok, Early Battle Yard

People can then easily find starting strats relating to the race they are interested in playing as.

Yup, I agree wholeheartedly - that was the original plan for part of the guide (an open Community Strategies tab) . Right now I'm eagerly waiting for Zebh and Doca to work out a potential "bridge" which will allow members of FO.net to access areas of the guide, but alas, there is only so much a very few group of people can do in limited time. Once that feature becomes available you can bet that it will take the form of the current strategy section, only that people may post how they wish, etc, without my interference (unless requested)

However, in the time being, if you want, people may choose to put their name, build order name, race, avatar, and format a build order (perhaps in a similar fashion to the guide) and I will go ahead and create a new section for those. They won't be editable except via request thus far, but perhaps that is a start that would be desired?  :sweatdrop:

posted on September 6th, 2010, 4:15 pm

Sounds good Dom.

posted on September 6th, 2010, 4:20 pm

Sorry to derail the thread further...  but is that what is wanted? Would people (and you) use that extra un-editable section for now? Maybe I should wait 'till the first content comes in, as I did make this offer a few months ago too 

posted on September 6th, 2010, 5:46 pm

Sorry to derail the thread further...  but is that what is wanted? Would people (and you) use that extra un-editable section for now? Maybe I should wait 'till the first content comes in, as I did make this offer a few months ago too 

To quote Tyler in another thread: A thread is not a proper thread until it has been derailed.

I would be happy to post build orders that i thought were different and interesting.  They are all situational so its hard to say exactly how well it will work in an online game unless tested, but this also depends on the user of the BO and the opponent as well.  I can imagine an experienced player could get a lot more mileage out of any of the three BOs i posted than i could myself, therefore to say exactly how good it is is certainly open to discussion.... therefore, i suppose thinking about this further, BOs should definitely be in the forum rather than on wiki type section of the guide.... as criticism feedback would be necessary.

Thinking about this further, it could be entries made that the BO forum should have a poll attached so people can rate the BOs.  Nothing complicated, either a star system 0-5 "stars" for example or a few choices such as:
1) Good BO useful in a wide variety of situations and/or adaptable
2) Good BO but situational.
3) Good BO but very situational.
4) Poor BO, some problems, or highly inefficient.
5) BO is a steaming pile of poo 

(situational most likely means your opponent's strat/BO but could also mean things like map size, whether a team game or not, etc).

Anyway Dom, when you said you made this offer a few months ago, i presume you didn't actually implement anything, you just go no feedback.... well, maybe we just have to suck it and see.

posted on September 6th, 2010, 5:55 pm

I dont know about you guys, but my usual build order, i get my dilithium moon at the same time as my yard, i then build the kbeajq and kvort extension, i build the other mining, and the reaserch station

usaually when i get my second kbeaj and first kvort out (3 ships) with one of there specials pretty quickly, and i go harass, and this seems to work pretty well

posted on September 6th, 2010, 6:04 pm

You see: BO is a steaming pile of poo

After been hit by a plasma weapon in the Fallout Slang

posted on September 6th, 2010, 6:06 pm

Well, even if it is a wiki, people can definitely post criticisms/complaints/suggestions alongside those build orders etc Would help clarify the build order too! The thing about a forum is that build orders tend to get lost in the morass of posts, and posts then become duplicated, and then the thread itself gets buried  :sweatdrop:

And yup, you are correct - when I suggested something like that a few months back I got no feedback, and no build orders  :sweatdrop: If there is nothing for me to add to a section, creating a blank one just doesn't seem to cut it  :blush: . The wiki is still planned - we aren't going to give up on that, this was just in reference to the "uneditable Community Strategies" section  :sweatdrop: .