Taqroja vs AI Merciless + AI Hard Federation

posted on April 10th, 2011, 3:41 am

Taqroja just kicked some federation a$$ (it was expensive).

Location Blue Amber. Normal Settings. The only thing I set was fix placement. I took a spot in the middle on the bottom, and gave them the two top spots. So I suppose I didn't have to scout for their bases.

Boyzo, what a game. A clean 2 hours.

Presenting the Second Fleet:

15 double gold bar Vorcha, 4 double gold bar Qawduj, 2 Veteran Kbeajq, 1 Veteran Vorcha, and 1 Veteran Qawduj,  survived. They were an unstoppable force. 6 starbases fell to their might. The Third and Fourth fleets were lost during the course of the attacks, most in the final main assault. 

Along with a Fifth fleet for home base defense of 9 Kbeajq, 2 Vorcha, and 2 Qawduj that was given a seemingly  impossible task. Too much to defend, and too many ships on to many fronts. But with the assistance of several turrets in specific areas, and a 2nd Fleet that pressed on in the front lines, the Fifth fleet protected key locations, only sacrificing positions that could no longer be held.

A successful scout in the first fleet provided crucial reconnaisance for the attacking force.

Three Field Yards and two Battle Yards were stationed in the system for heavy combat. Two starbases oversaw the operation. 8 Chor supported the on site construction. A considerable fleet of 40 topmey produced the funds. The system was in desperate need for better supply lines. But in the end, supplies were gathered, and the enemy defeated.
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Red Federation Merciless AI fought valiantly. As did Orange Federation Hard AI. Sovereigns were deadly.

In the end, they were no match for the Klingon Empire. 

haha. 

posted on April 10th, 2011, 6:29 am

haha very cool! Try it against 2 roms, 2 doms, and two borgs and let me know what happens!

posted on April 10th, 2011, 4:29 pm

Well, Klingons vs Federation has long been my favourite match up. Against just AI Merciless Federation, the game can generally be won before they reach Eraudi Yard. Or right when they start producing E2's. So, I can't really say its always an enjoyable game when you don't even have to go up against any of their battleships. Merciless + Normal Federation AI is better, but not much different. The Normal AI does nothing significant, but it does allow the game to reach a point where Merciless gets a few battleships out. But it's still too late.

Overall, the game is always a perfect storm against feds. They stay on their Antares yard for quite a while throwing everything at you, monsoons, intrepids, norways, akiras, novas etc... probably from two yards at their base and another couple at their expansions. But Klingon turrets with well rounded ships just munch on them.

In this game, it got pretty deadly at one point. I had three almost full fleets 2-4, ranked somewhat from defending my base, and I sent them to crush the AI. Ignoring one of their fleets that was a considerable size, that was atacking me. When I got there, there was still a very large number of ships to supply and rank up on. And this guaranteed that all new ships being produced would have to face me there. So I crushed everything Merciless at the top, 3-4 starbases, many turrets, and such. (although, they were reassembling elsewhere on the map, but getting the home base destroyed did the trick). Was left with a medium sized fleet of fully rank Vorchas and some more. I then had to rush that fleet back home, because in the meantime, hard AI decided to come to life with a fleet of antares and eraudi ships, and the Merciless AI had already been down there with ships attacking for quite some time. Took out three of my less guarded expansions, and was sitting on top of my starbase. By the time I got there and was able to finish them off, my starbase sat below 40% hull strength. I did have another starbase built on the map, but my home base was pretty much destroyed. No refineries left, Miners gone. I think I was left with just the field yard. Maybe the first research station. But I didnt have much else built. After that it was just clean up.

As for the 2 roms, doms and Borg. Except for the borg, on normal setting really not sure if that would work. Roms have cloak, serkas, and the AI easily reaches a warbird spam. I find just the Merciless a good matchup. In offensives you rarely get much done. So I just turret up, and send my ships after serkas that attack out of range. But I don't always win. Dominion I'm pretty confident would be a lost game. They mass produce bugs, and reach t15s and V13s? I think it is, very quickly and its insane. Even though I could try it... the solo Merciless is still a fairly good matchup, because they do generally reach their battleships, but perhaps worth seeing. As for Borg, I'm not sure. In the game, when my three fleets attacked, I got a huge supply leap on all those rank ups, and was fielding ships as much as possible to fend off the merciless attack, but with only a few ships at a time to engage them, they cleaned em up pretty good. By the end, it was really the remaining 2nd fleet that did all the work, there was no more rank ups to be had, they were fully ranked, my mining all over the map was more than halfed, huge tri shortage, and supplies were gone. Borg would never provide large supplies.. but just based on some of the merciless game, it might be doable. The merciless game I played the other day was not a hard matchup. Maybe.

But I might be trying against two Federation Merciless AI as well, might lose t he first couple before I figure something out. But I'm just looking for a good match up where it is challenging, and its a close game. If you just get slaughtered... have to find another set up. I'm also curious about omitting Merciless, and finding perhaps a trio combination. Two Hard and One Normal perhaps or just three hard. But with additional AI, offensives get harder because you have to ignore one or more AI, and that leaves you quite vulnerable, unless you can manage three offensives at once.. which I dont think is to realistic.

But eventually I probably will get to that point, because I've beat all the Merciless AI, so you have to up the anti somehow. Two hard, Merciless and one Normal, Merciless and one hard. Two Merciless, three hard, four normal. lol
whatever you enjoy playing against.

A Klingon spam of continuous Kbeajq, with Qawduj to start and Vorcha to finish is pretty strong.

posted on April 10th, 2011, 7:59 pm

First I'll try playing some Merciless and Normal games with each of them see how it goes.

posted on April 12th, 2011, 9:08 pm

Vastly improved on speed and effectiveness for Blue Amber gameplan, and totally walked through two Merciless Federation AI. Was finished in just over an hour, but had the clear win maybe 40 min into it. I think I was happier when the AI kicked my butt. lol Now I'll have to set Merciless AI and some sort of handicap or harder settings. Or go for three Merciless! Wouldn't that be fun.

haha, and my initial attempt at Borg Merciless and Hard AI did not fair to well, totally got squashed by a dozen assimilators and spheres. Turrets, Kbeajqs and Qawduj were crippled by those one shot torpedo things that practically take out all your shields.

Seems to work much much better with Federation, no real devastating ability to attack. The torpedo turret is annoying, but none of the ships are to much of a problem.

Could we get the Avalon inserted into the Federation AI usage? I see every ship but that one. Or is there a reason for this?

posted on April 12th, 2011, 9:31 pm

Borg mercy is considerably harder than fed mercy. Although taking on 2 of them is still quite a task good job.

posted on April 12th, 2011, 9:49 pm

Borg get slaughtered by Feds though. 

And if it hasn't changed a bunch since the last patch(shows how much I've played recently) the Feds fedroll the dominion merciless too.  Monsoons kick the bug's rear.

posted on April 12th, 2011, 9:59 pm

Thanks.

Actually, yeah thats the other faceoff I do. I either play Klingon vs Any, or I also like to play Federation, and most often play against Dominion. Borg I have absolutely no feel for. Only one construction ship to start? Rebuild Uplink things for every ship? Very few ships can be made. I mean, the easy part is dont pay for research. But I find it very hard otherwise. I am really looking forward to the borg redo. Hope its made more easily playable.

Dominion also confuses me. Mostly the economy and setting up tri/di/supply collection. I just never seem to get a good rhythm going. And the protos im better with, but to start it used to be really hard to start a game. i couldnt use my first few ships at all. But then I learned you focus just on one? I was trying to get all my protos out, then spam everything... lol I dunno.

Romulans I think I'm progessing fairly well with getting research and ship production... but I rely heavily on turrets. And this goes to Klingons and Feds hands down. But Romulans, just can't get it done. So I have to make starbases be turrets and whole bunch of other stuff.

But Klingons have it the best. Trio field yard Best Feature Ever! 

posted on April 14th, 2011, 5:31 pm

Three Federation Merciless AI's. 

But with slight catches: 1. Fixed Placement 2. Shroud Off 3. Fog off 4. Map: Blue Amber

(  The Map is OP so I put it as a catch   )

I decided if I had godseyes it would make it a bit easier. That way I could see them and curse at them all-knowingly.

So now, I know I can beat them. I just have to do everything I did while having shroud on, and fog on. It will be tougher. The first attempt at three AI was with them on, I was obliterated. Seemed impossible. Even with it off, it was no walk in the park. But I got the job done. Just have to improve to the point where I don't need them off. Probably play a few games with it off, get used to it, then smoke 'em fair'n'square. 

I could probably do it if shroud were on, and fog were off. Maybe that will be a good stepping stone.

posted on April 15th, 2011, 5:05 pm

Your gonna have to play multiplayer soon! I've been trying the other races, borg is confusing to me, so is the awkwardness of the dominion economy. Fed is ok and so is Rom, but Klingon is the funnest for me to play with.

I've gotten a lot better in terms of my micro and macro vs the computer on merciless, soon I will have to dominate the multiplayer ranks

posted on April 15th, 2011, 10:14 pm

I'm so close to beating 3 merciless AI, gah! I went back to having the shroud and fog on.

I get everything up really good, huge economy, with defensive turrets and starbases. And right at the point where they are switching to larger vessels I have larger fleets and am crushing them.

As far as I can tell, going into the middle/end game I have them crushed. But I can't do anything from there. Whenever I attack the expansions of one, the others get stronger. Then they come in waves, and I have to go back to defensive.

I can consistently manage to get about 2 fleets of 18-24 ships. But what to do with them?!

I ended up completely crushing the weakest AI out of the game. But then the other two became unbelievably strong. So I think I had either of them beat individually, but whichever one I pick costs me heavily, and then they both manage to spring back and crush me.

I must focus. I'll win it in the end. Just a matter of time. I already did in without the shrouds. Just need to have patience.

posted on April 27th, 2011, 1:33 pm

You should record it i know that i cant beat 3 mercys id like to see it done.

posted on April 27th, 2011, 11:50 pm

yeah record it because I can beat 1 merciless but not more than that.

posted on April 28th, 2011, 1:37 am

I haven't updated this I suppose. I'll try to state what I do... and I'm pretty sure this is going to be a (very very)long post (I don't know how to record).

To be honest, I have no idea how to measure the games I'm playing (I'll expand below) and I'd also like to state that I can only do this against 3 Federation AI, and as Klingons lol I guess those are my disclaimers (I know that can be done, but no other combination that I'm all to familiar with)... and as of yet, I can't beat it fairly. I did mention it was with shroud and fog off right?

Did you try it with them off?

I have no idea how to record stuff. But I can give lots of tips that I've noticed.

You HAVE to do this on Blue Amber (this is the only map I know of that you can do it). As far as I can tell, it's the only map with suitable size, and necessary number of moon pairs and the asteroid belts help. There is a best combination that I have found for map fixed placement. Give Federation Mercy the top three spots. You take the one the furthest to the right on the bottom. It is inevitable that the furthest AI is going to fully develop... you just cant do anything about it. The one right above you is the one you need to focus on crushing as efficiently as possible.

So just to expand on my own personal frustration with this endeavor... I can always do things differently, ie build more scouts to get better sight of the AI, or build different orders with ship tactics but without full vision.. I really can't tell how close I am to winning. It always seems like I get to a good fleet size... but then its a stand off, until  finally the AI expands to brutally finish me. But aside from that, it can be done with shroud and fog off, (you get a good fleet, and you always know exactly where to send it that is AI defenseless, and when to send it home to defend against upcoming attacks, or to send them right out to meet them on their way to you) I'll give my basic outline for what I think you'll need.

You'll need for sure 3 constructors to start, and 2 more shortly after. From here, it is straight topmey spam from your Kahless station. This is listed as Taq... but I think when I did the three AI it was Martok (you can get the shipyards better... with taq you save with all the topmey you have to produce... but sometimes it can be hard saving up for the shipyards).

First queue up constructor, then four topmey, constructor, four topmey, constructor, topmey infinity. In the end, I think you expand to something like 5 tritanium moons, and maybe eight di moons (that map has di surplus).

First, build two refineries. After this, immediately send both constructors and scout to the moon pair expansion directly above and to the left. Build refineries and your first field yard *only kbeajqs extensions. Don't both building shipyards at your home base... better to spam them right form expansion. In the end, you have three field yards, and two battle yards. The big asteroid field should be right to the upper left of your yards expansion. it should work that you build from left to right, a field yard, a tri? refinery, field yard in between *this is first, di? refinery, field yard, battle yard, battle  yard. you have a perfect fit to build two battle yards, and field yard between the moon and blue nebula. Along the way to this upper expansion, build a refinery at the di moon that is en route. And give it at least two heavy weapons platforms. Get all three field yards up with kbeajq spam in each only. Battle yards build qawduj maybe get six, then should be able to go to vorcha spam. You need to turret this yard sale up like crazy. Build two turrets right beside each other above each station. And on the edges, build more like five for when they come on the corners. The one exposed on the side.. at some point getting a starbase to close it off is best, but even just a 10 turret platform works.

K, so this expansion is the gist of your offensive bulk... it gets attacked like crazy... which is good, because most of their ships get sent to this expansion only.

In the meantime, the three other constructors you build will get a monopoly on the bottom corner. First have them build your field research. Send one straight down to the bottom corner, take the di moon  along the way. I  straddle each individual moon with two turrets. This protects your miners from attacks (AI doesnt attack your refineries nearly as much as they go for your miners) The other two send down and to  the left, toward the middle bottom beginning placement. Take each moon, give them two turrets. These particular moons though, give them maybe one or two turrets extra, as this is the other way to your base.. and eventually they get attacked. It's just the timing I can't help with, but get one turret up as feasible as possible for each expansion. Three AIs are out there with destroyers.

I would eventually bring one of those constructors back to your main base to build the battle yard research stations, then send them back to the expansion. So this is your economy, roughly 5 tri moons, and eight di moons ... kahless station spamming topmeys or all of them. Probably have to replace some of them that get destroyed, so I'm thinking at least 30 or so will end up being built. It's the roughest in the beginning, but you start with these expansions from the start.. and soon the resources will be piling up nicely. You will be able to continuously spam kbeajq from three yards, and vorchas from two. At different points you will get surpluses, which make research and starbase building quick ways to balance them out.

That is the Defensive type side of it. I'll make another post for how you can deal with the AI.

posted on April 28th, 2011, 2:06 am

So in the start.. is really the worst of it. They get destroyers long before you can afford them. But! Thankfully, keeping your two constructors at your expansion, with your scout and a yard. You can easily take on at least a few destroyers. When one loses its shields, cycle it through the yard. The AI attacks it blindly doing no damage while in the yard repairing, and your other ships pick them off *slowly. Other than that, you take losses, but will quickly rebuild them as you start getting turrets and kbeajq out. Then qawduj/vorcha.

So, in the map you had five expansions... and having so many AI is nice, because they dont each get to expand quite so well. They cramp in to each other and its not pretty for them. So the upper map has a few easily accessible expansions you need to deal with.

The AI each get colours now to make this easier, the far left AI I always make red, the middle is orange, and the one right above you is yellow.

Red has an expansion right below it, and it shares the one in between it and orange (right behind an asteroid belt). Then yellow has one right below it as well. The one at the very top in between will be shared by orange and yellow. Now, there is also two rows of asteroids, with two tri moons, and three di moons. This is a very important location. You have to stop them from taking this expansion. That's my mission for you! If they take this, with starbases and eraudi yards = you lose. In fact, it is best if you keep them from getting starbases at any expansion  beyond there immediate base.

Trying to think of a way to name the AI expansions, um the one right below red is 1, the 5 moons in between the two asteroid belts is 2, the one further back between orange and yellow is 3, and the one right below yellow is 4. It is great if you can get about 15 ships and menace all of these a little bit. At least destroy a few stations and miners to make the AI rebuild, and it makes them slow down quite a bit just in general with expansion stuff.

But really focus on yellow, so thats the upper right corner, and the expansion the go to above you, and to their left. With two AI, I just give them the far left, and the middle top.. and its so much easier.

Um, so this is where I'm at sort of with three AI. With shroud and fog off.. this should get you to a good place... but its just so bad. Because beating yellow AI is doable... but then you take losses, and you ignore red and orange.. and it gets ugly. I think myles or boggz mentioned something about how its always battles of attrition with AI... and yeah, quite true.

With shroud and fog OFF though, you should have a much easier time with achieving this. Your mission is always to stop the AI from expanding to these four points. All you need to worry about really. If you have clear line of site, makes attacking quite easy as soon as you get a decent fleet. And when you see streams of red and orange dots, retreat!

I guess its called turtling right? I dunno, I think of it as ship wall, and turret wall. so ship wall is good for ranking. turret wall is just basic common sense good defense. very strong. But the AI is dumb. So you get huge bonus when it comes to them attacking you at your expansion. You get a ship turret wall sandwich. lol I dunno, how i think of it. so you have yard and refineries built in straight line, with straight wall of turrets on top (hugging one side of a nebula/asteroid belt on the right side). When they come to attack you in big numbers, retreat your ships to behind the turret wall. When they engage, move all  your ships so that they fall behind the AI ship line. You get lots of advantages here:

1. Your attacking them from both sides... and they drop soo soo sooooo fast.

2. When they get damaged, and turn to retreat they escape from turret wall, and get ship wall.

3. The long range ships that are generally a nuissance now are isolated with your ship fleet.

4. Any small reinforcements they send (individual ships they are building during this battle) you can pick of one by one.

So with this, and you targeting the ships...  thats big,  you can squash absolutely huge fleets in no time. Always get behind them and target the long range first, leave the small and medium stuff to the turrets. Then go for the big meatier ships (better for you to rank up on). leave the destroyers and weak ships to the turrets to take care of on auto. Take out the sovereigns and defiants and such with your fleets.

I know its a long post... but regardless, only people who care about this are gonna read it... so, well, yeah.

With shroud and fog off... I think this should help. Only really building kbeajqs and vorchas. Along the way to vorcha, maybe be sure to build say 4-7 qawduj or something. Your expansion is all taken care of from the start. Don't need to expand beyond this. Although I have sometimes expanded once more a little higher to the middle of the map.

Final note I guess... is AI order of priority:

1. All AI expansions (1 - 4). They cramp together. But just stop them from getting starbases and such.

2. Definitely take out AI yellows (whatever one is right above you) expansions.

3. Kill Yellow (Above you). Kill Red (Opposite far Left). Kill Orange (middle AI) *orange I think is definitely weakest here, it is squished, and doesnt expand well at all. so go up, then swing around to the far left,  and go from there.

Also, don't be picky about losing ships... its just going to happen. I'm at the point where if they have full hull... mentally Im thinking theyre well off. When they drop to ten percent hull then I consider retreating them to repair if its a good ranked ship. But really push your fleets.

Only other thing is fleet setup. All scouts would belong to fleet one. keep them in enemy territory *if you have shroud and fog off... you dont need scouts though.. so this is mute. but when you might try to do it witht them on, get a bunch in their AI never goes for cloak detect. Then set all yards to fleet two, when fleet two reaches 18-21 ship number, switch the fleet number on all yards to three, do as much damage as you can with fleet 2, when you come back to repair the whole fleet together after taking out an expansion or to retreat and fend off an attack, you have everything you just built in fleet three to restock with. And that way when ordering fleet 2 to attack, you dont have individual ships that are built trying to cross the map alone.

lol K. imma stop now. but really. I think the only thing I needed to state was shround and fog off. use blue amber. build 5 constructors. maybe six. topmey spam to all your expansions. all yards at your first expansion, three field yard, two battle yard, kbeajq and vorcha spam. squish the ais together on the top. attack their expansions. and yep.