How to Saeihr Spam

[Beef]

posted on February 4th, 2012, 10:01 pm

Last edited by Beef on February 4th, 2012, 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

You sure about that? I could swear i doesn't take that long!

EDIT: I think I know where you slipped. You must set the first 2 miners on dilithium immediately after they come out. They will mostly fill up as soon as the mining station is done, then you will have insta-300 dilithium. After that you won't have to wait to build that upgrade facility at all. A soon as you are done with the research station, give the constructor the job!

In the meantime 3 rhienn's will be out and the 4th will be happily sitting in the yard and get put together.

posted on June 23rd, 2012, 10:38 pm

So how did this strategy turn out? We haven't heard anything for a while.

posted on June 24th, 2012, 11:25 am

http://guide.fleetops.net/video/play/611

One game was recorded. Tryptic comments as he plays. I hope that we see another example at some point.

posted on June 24th, 2012, 2:52 pm

The strategy isn't competitive against a good opponent, although it can still be fun to try.

I'm afraid the Saeihrs are simply too slow to raid, which leaves your opponent free to expand however he wants. Also, as you can see in the video your micro needs to be perfect, and one bit of lag can cost you your entire fleet

I did play a game against some newer players that were both Klingon, and the strategy worked although it was very difficult in the beginning. It goes back to what I said in another thread recently: if they keep building ships as fast as you can, your opponent will outnumber your Saihrs pretty fiercely in the beginning.

Also, I know it looks like I got completely massacred (and I did) but I'd also like to point out that I killed 7 borg ships in that final encounter, while no less than 3 of my ships canceled their repair orders in front of the yard. If you look very carefully you can see when it happens: they jerk to the side a little bit while still facing it.

posted on June 27th, 2012, 1:24 am

Hey Tryp, i hope i dont' sound too much like an ass, but... here we go:


Their speed isn't the problem, more cost, their specific task, and till the point you got a few of them - rushing them is never a good idea!
Plus in a close encounter, or larger battle, you will lose them with their weak defense.
I remember another 4v4 where you tried it, and got ripped apart by some tier1 crap - was a bit laggy though.

The lag didn't cost you your fleet this game, i asked Zebh many times not to kill you, which could have happened with the first attack, i wanted to wait till i was mining all 9(!) moons (middle was my first expansion btw), and he wanted to get transwarp actually (for the lulz). He had a shit ton of ressources over as well btw., so did i, we could have instantly bought a god damn cube.

It looks like you miss placed your yard a bit.

And last but not least: for this kind of bullshit strat you definitely need a very good micro.



Anyways... now the the pro Saeihr:
I think they're quite useful in larger team games, 3v3+, as long as you keep them out of enemy range. Then they will definitely increase your firepower by A LOT.
Problem though, as you already mentioned: if it's a bit laggy, you will have some issues keeping them where you want em to be - quite similar to Serkas. Only an option for micro skilled players.
If you use it in a team game, probably a 4v4, you may place yourself behind a defensive player, get an early eco start with maybe some ressources by him, that would change pretty much everything around numbers and mid to late game options (i think i gonna try that one for you )



So...
it is just a "for fun" strat, you can use in large team games, or against way inferior players, otherwise there's usually no real way to rush for it - this goes for every mix tech in my opinion.



Hope i didn't offend you, i know you like your shiny Saeihrs, but mixed tech rush is nothing you should do (at all)

posted on June 27th, 2012, 7:01 am

I'm not really offended, but you do have a habit of pointing out obvious things and pretending the person you're talking to doesn't know about them, in order to make yourself look smarter than that person.

Of course rushing them isn't a good idea. The problem with many build orders right now is that they leave you limited: you rush a MT yard and you have no anti-long range counter, you rush a Warbird yard and you have no short range counter, etc.

Since the Klingon MT yard does not offer any other ships that complement the Saeihr, any build order based on it will need to build only Saeihrs and nothing else. Since you will be building only Saeihrs, the Saeihr needs to be able to fulfill every role that you need. And the Saeihr is too slow to do this.

In the game you are referring to, I lost to a 2-player fleet of B8's because my MT start was weak to long range and gave me no option to build anything else. My allies' monsoons were unable to tank for my fleet and it died in a fire, but not before annihilating the klingon fleet. In the end the reason I died was because I was caught out of position by a cloak detect fleet and my fleet was too slow to meet up with the others' fleets at their yard.

I did lose several ships early in that game due to lag, that if they had survived I would have been able to push out. However you are right, I didn't lose due to micro, but because the Saeihr is a non-viable ship that should never be built in any competitive game because it is too weak. Don't worry, I know. There is no pro Saeihr strat.

[Dragonfire87]

posted on June 27th, 2012, 12:47 pm

Last edited by Dragonfire87 on June 27th, 2012, 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The ship itself is great even performing well against most of its intended counters, the tech is the problem. At the beginning of the game its too expensive and takes too much time, at the end there is either no need or if in urgent need other anti short-range ships are available more quickly (tech as well as build times). In addition the Spectre refit also grants access to weapon, shield and sensor upgrades and its yards can be used for repair, also increasing the production capabilities of other Romulan standard combat ships as they all come from the same (the small) yard.

posted on June 27th, 2012, 4:39 pm

The Saeihr, like any mixed-tech ship, is not supposedly to supplant your native ships. It's meant to complement them. If you rush a mixed-tech yard and only build from them, it should be an almost guaranteed loss. It's like rushing to most other high tech ships. If you start your game spamming Defiants and nothing else, you will enjoy the repercussions.

posted on June 27th, 2012, 4:45 pm

I'm not really offended, but ...

So you do feel offended

The thing is, i'm telling you for at least half a year that it's not working, and you keep (kept) insisting that there is a way, and basically deny the truth - it was always something else like lag, got teamed, repair "bug", etc.
Same with our lovely map tests, where i (well, mainly Dom) told you that specific stuff is not working out at all.
If you would accept it, you could try a different path, instead of retrying stuff that is definitely NOT going to work.

but not before annihilating the klingon fleet.

That was only a quarter of my fleet - basically intended losses (cannon fodder for tanking)

I did lose several ships early in that game due to lag

You lost em cause you had the way inferior fleet at that point. Even without lag the outcome would have been the same.

There is no pro Saeihr strat.

In 3v3+ there might be a reason to go for them.
1v1 or 2v2 - don't go for mix tech vs. any decent opponent.




Anyways, nothing more to add after Dragonfire's good reasoning.



Edit...

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*cough*