How to Saeihr Spam

[Tryptic]

posted on February 1st, 2012, 12:01 am

Last edited by Tryptic on February 3rd, 2012, 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

So I've been enjoying playing with (no offense) a lot of newer players lately, people I can afford to mess around with a bit instead of hyper-focus-on-survival.  I just had a very fun game where I Saeihr spammed, even though we lost I had 5 veteran Saeihrs and got to take down multiple V-13's before they died.  It's a rarely used strategy and I want to post a guide here so that other people can enjoy the awesome before it goes away (or at least changes)

[align=center]The Ship[/align]

The Saeihr is the Romulan special Mixed-tech ship, and it requires a Klingon ally to build.  Its key stats are 19 defense, 26 offense and a special that grants it +25 offense for a short time in exchange for 1 point of supply.  With long range, Beam and Projectile weapons, it basically hits like a non-upgraded starbase.

It also has Fast-Tracking Computers, which deals extra damage to short range.  If this sounds familiar, the Devs borrowed heavily from this profile when they created the new Spectre.

Saeihrs are fragile, RIDICULOUSLY fragile and you often won't be able to cloak out.  They should be supplemented with Rhienns, as the Rhienns will be targeted first and can use phase-plates to tank.  On multiple occasions I have killed upwards of 10 klingon field yard ships in exchange for a single Rhienn using this method.

[align=center]How to Saeihr Spam[/align]

First, you will need a Klingon ally.  Yeah.  You may be tempted to use Mijurial, as she offers the enticing warbird bonuses and Helev doesn't do much for your strategy, but I strongly recommend you stick with Helev.  He will reduce the supply cost of your Rhienns (this is a very supply-intensive strat) and offer you more flexibility.  You probably won't be able to reach Warbirds, sorry.

The first thing to understand is that MT yards cannot repair.  Similar to a Warbird rush, you will only have 1 repair yard but you need to defend two locations, which means the yard goes at your expansion.  HOWEVER, if you are on a map like Star Traffic or Nebula Stream which has a back expansion between you and your ally, you may build your staryard at your main and take that expansion later.  In either case, your first constructor goes to build it immediately.  Then queue up 4 miners.

Your second constructor should build a MT yard(Klingon) near your Tritanium moon.  It's a low priority target, so don't worry about putting it in a safe place.  When your MT yard finishes, build a refinery near the Tri and start researching Alien Tech at the yard.

The Staryard starts work on rhienns, and if it's at your base your second constructor heads to the expansion.  You're going to finish both refineries at your main and your expansion Dilithium, then look at your situation.  If the enemy is NOT in position to raid you, you can go straight for dual MT yards after you get 2 rhienns.  If he has any ships that can raid you, you'll want the Research Institute and phase plates first, and up to 4 rhienns.

If you're coming to the very end of the Alien Tech research and don't have your second MT yard yet, go ahead and wait a little bit.  It costs around 600/200 for your first Saeihr and that's more important than the second yard right now.  If you haven't been attacked, it should be possible to start 2 Saeihrs the moment the research finishes.  The moment these come out, you can consider yourself immune to short-range raiders: scubes, leahvals, birds of prey, even monsoons.  One Saeihr with rhienn support can kill 2 scubes, or at least make them run away.

When you're up and running, you will have 2 MT yards building Saeihrs and 1 Staryard building the occasional Rhienn. You can diversify a bit if you want, get some leahvals for raiding or griffins to reduce enemy firepower, but I recommend double-yarding Saeihr until you hit the limit of 20.  At that point, if you haven't won the game, you will have a huge excess of money that you can use to get an Upgrade facility and upgrade your ship weapons.  Probably give the rest to your ally, or get an Intelligence Center.  At this point you will also be spending a TON of supply with your Saeihr special so you'll need to buy often.

As you can see, this strategy is most vulnerable before the first Saeihr comes out.  Don't be greedy: if you're under attack, go ahead and get more rhienns or even a generix/leahval or two.  You can delay the second MT yard as long as the first one stays on schedule.  Your first Saeihr will still be pretty vulnerable to being sniped, or double-teamed by the enemy.  Make sure your klingon ally can support you with faster ships, because every ship you lose is a serious setback.  This strat starts producing around the 8-and-a-half minute mark, about the same time as a sphere-rush which is very bad since there's no way you can kill a sphere this early.  Every Saeihr is important in case your enemy is also using a build-up strategy, and for this reason you may end up sacrificing rhienns on a regular basis to keep the heat off them: that's totally okay.  Only use the special in the early game and for big fleet fights, where your firepower will burn hotter than a thousand suns.

[align=center]The Enemy[/align]

Unfortunately, this strategy is a bit inflexible: both Saeihrs and Rhienns are long-range ships that counter short-range ships.  Be aware of the counters.

-Klingon opponents are screwed.  Seriously.  Field yard ships just get ripped up, maybe some heavy disruptor shots could snipe your Saeihrs but they can expect to lose a ship every 2 seconds they spend fighting you, more if they get Kvorts.  Sangs, Vorcha, nothing really holds up.  Maybe intense Brel spam, but they still have to micro them to not shoot at your Rhienns.  EDIT: Polaron field will mess you up.  Be sure to one-shot any QawDuj you see ASAP.

-Fed players are equally screwed.  Monsoon spam is their best option, with proxy torp they can be a tough challenge but they still suffer from the problem of targeting your phase-plate rhienns first.  Make sure said rhienns are in position before the battle starts.

-Dominion opponents are a different story.  B8's won't be enough to shut you down completely, but they will hold you at bay for a very long time, long enough to get a ridiculously big fleet.  You won't be able to go near a Perimeter until you have the full 20 Saeihrs.  I recommend shutting down his expansions whenever you can, or getting help from your Klingon ally.  At least you don't have to worry about bugs, bombers, or S2 as these will all get slaughtered by your Saeihrs.

-Borg are a mixed bag.  Their first Scubes could be a serious problem for you, but once your Saeihrs come out they will be less of a problem.  A sphere is another story: if you have around 8 saeihrs you can kill it almost immediately, but anything less than that and he will bleed you to death.  Watch out for early EM adaptors and don't engage unless you can get the kill.

-I have never played against Romulans, but I imagine they're screwed.  No Leahvals, no Rhienns, nothing can cloak out under this kind of barrage.  If they go for Warbirds, Cehlaers could be annoying but after you get 7-8 saeihrs they have nothing that can stand up to you.

[align=center]Your Ally[/align]

For the most part, your ally is free to do what he wants.  He should probably get some fast ships, as your fleet will be too slow to raid and you need to keep the enemy from building up.  Coordinate with him to make sure you never get double-teamed by the enemy and you'll do fine.

posted on February 1st, 2012, 2:23 am

Truely interesting, but i doubt it to work out for non-super-professionals.

posted on February 1st, 2012, 1:16 pm

I was playing in that game and I confess that I have never even saw that ship! It was fun to see it in action. Sorry my klingon skills are so noob  we got our ass kicked

posted on February 2nd, 2012, 6:56 am

Oh man, we gotta get a replay of this.

posted on February 2nd, 2012, 5:55 pm

Oh man, we gotta get a replay of this.

Please can we see a replay!

posted on February 2nd, 2012, 9:21 pm

I've been working on it a bit, after discovering that this exact build...does not work.  You stall out without allied assistance.  Once I have a firmer version, I'll do a replay of me using it.

The key is balancing the staryard, mining, and MT yards such that none of them are neglected.  It'll be very precise when it's done, but I want to show that even new players should be able to do it if they practice a bit.

posted on February 3rd, 2012, 3:35 am

There's nothing wrong with needing allied assistance in this case; it is a mixed-tech strat, so allied coordination is a given from the get-go.

posted on February 3rd, 2012, 6:07 pm

Updated the strat, a lot.  I'll see if I can do a recording sometime soon.

posted on February 3rd, 2012, 9:57 pm

You said rommies can't stand that... seahir rush vs. beam rhienn rush?

I dunno... beam rhiens seem like quite the little death dealers, and they would do +25% to those FTC saehirs... to include the multi-distruptor... that would just damn straight spray those saehir's, and if you played helev it would give that extra zzzzing to those distruptors!

posted on February 3rd, 2012, 10:35 pm

Hmm, that would be interesting.  Keep in mind that the Saeihrs actually cost less than Dis-rhienns, ~580 vs ~780 Dilithium.  Still, you're right that the Dis rhienns could cause a lot of damage with their special.  I wonder how fast a Dis rhienn strategy can be done?

The thing about Disruptor rhienns that really makes them good is their high defense and ability to kite, but the Saeihrs can shoot at long range and deal incredible damage.  It would depend greatly on the micro of the two players, cloaking and cloak-detecting especially.

posted on February 3rd, 2012, 11:09 pm

Quite fast acutally, recently i tried on how fast can i get them in MP: you put up rhiens, then put up the first research station, give them phase plates, then build upgrade facility (i think its called that, im terrible with names lol). The upgrade for beam rhienn costs only 300di/150tri.

Basic rhiens are not expensive and you can put 5 on the table by the time you are ready to refit them, which you do as soon as possible.

Now mind you, this can be done by the time you barely research your mixed tech and while you produce something, im pretty confient that they will have their special up and going.

Another good thing is that under these conditions your economy won't bleed so much as with laehvals or griffins and will let you expand almost without the need to interrupt your production! And rhienns are long range too and with the extra damage from long range the splash of multi-distruptors has to pop at least their shields, but everyone's shields!

What's another good thing is that the multi targeting distruptor can be used quite often!

posted on February 3rd, 2012, 11:49 pm

well then, I shall have to go get my white glove sometime so I can slap you with it!

posted on February 4th, 2012, 12:13 am

Just as long as this duel is recorded for posterity. I would make my day to see how this works out.

[Beef]

posted on February 4th, 2012, 9:05 am

Last edited by Beef on February 4th, 2012, 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

I thought they used black gloves... but that's just me and my villain's point of view! I mean, somebody has to be the bad guy or you knights in shinny armor are gonna get all fat and lazy!

Hold still, this IS going to hurt!

Just kidding, I don't know who would win that!

posted on February 4th, 2012, 9:11 pm

Huh, I tried out a Dis-Rhienn start, and it looks like the fastest you can get them is the 9.5 minute mark, about the same time as my Saeihrs.  Granted, you'll have more ships than me, but after that there's a bit of a delay before you can get the special and more Dis-Rhienns while my Saeihrs will be constantly producing.

Now we just need some wingmen to help us out, stupid Mix-Tech.  Or we could just have a pair of easy Computer allies who don't do anything but unlock my strategy, if you want.