Holding off a cube...

posted on December 1st, 2009, 1:58 am

And even if you can manage them remotely well, I dare say. Easy kiting something when you only have to retreat away from an equal velocity, weaker shielded, short range unit sadly. Your opponent has to be pretty poor while wielding long range 360 degree units not to be able to destroy Klingon vessels (with the exception of Sang' of course... and possibly TaQ'roja B'rels)

Having played Klingons frequently I'd also put forth that even though B'rels can catch most vessels out there, due to the fleet organization arrangement there are often ships left out of range.  Sangs < Excel 2's

 Veron and I played a ffa with a new guy today with myself as Taq, Veron as Helev, and the new Guy as Mayson.  We actually both went after him (perhaps unkindly) but did not completely finish him off.  We were teaching him that in a ffa with a Mayson who spams Canaverals, Excel II's, and Warp-ins, the Mayson gets ganged up on.

  Needless to say The B'rels remained very useful in a group of about 10 or so to make a fast run on a miner.  You can decloak them on the run and destroy a miner without stopping and making yourself vulnerable.  Clearly though the B'rels were almost useless once hit with a sensor Blackout (even when put in multiple groups) and I switched to Kvorts and Sangs with Qaw'Duj Support.  The Sangs did excellently until Veron and I wiped each other out, leaving the New guy with a fleet of Excel's and Canavs to sit there.

  Veron and I both were more or less unable to dent his fleet until I tricked him into letting me hit him with 3 Bortas under the effect of the Moqbar station.  But really ... the Excel's outdue the Sang's easily.  I was sniping his Canaverals with Kvorts but reasonably it took 6 or more to kill one and then had to retreat them to recharge.  The Canaverals came out faster than that.

posted on December 1st, 2009, 2:33 am

Sadly, it's all true.  As Klingons, I always have to keep a single fleet in a strategically viable location, cloaked.  It's sole job is to ambush fleeing/kiting units, cloak, and get the hell out of sight so it can be used again.  It's usually a pure fleet, either K'vort or Vor'cha.

And the speed increase research as Klingons, I tend to consider to be the absolute top priority.  Without it, you're hosed.

[funnystuffpictures]

posted on December 8th, 2009, 3:26 am

Last edited by funnystuffpictures on December 8th, 2009, 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

LOl I have another question I would like to ask. How do you fight off a fleet of Breen Battleships, or sangs, or excellsior IIs, or wabirds and valdores, or breen cruisers, or susas, or... I mean come on. Borg are not OP. You can easily counter them with time and resources. In fact you can even kill a cube while its building. Granted a fleet of cubes and a diamond is very deadly, but this is the game folks! Just because you lose doesnt mean somthing is necissarily overpowered. If you let your opponents build a cube and you cant counter it, then you deserve to lose. Thats what this game is all about! Countering is what you do in this game, and if you dont like that, then this might not be the game for you. If you are up against a diamond and cubes, kill the diamond first! Borg may have powerfull ships, but thats because the dont have very many ships. Cubes are supposed substitute for that lack of numbers. Sorry if I sound a bit harsh, but come on people. Have a little common sense please.

[Boggz]

posted on December 8th, 2009, 3:38 am

Last edited by Boggz on December 8th, 2009, 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

LOl I have another question I would like to ask. How do you fight off a fleet of Breen Battleships, or sangs, or excellsior IIs, or wabirds and valdores, or breen cruisers, or susas, or...

  Well Susa's, Sang's, and breen cruisers are easy to get right off the get-go, I admit.  They are SUPER hard to kill with your first ships.  But c'mon, Excel II's?  Warbirds?  A good Borg player should never let you get those things out in the first place.

  That's 1 v 1 of course.  If you're talking about team games then your ships plus your allies should be more than enough to handle them.  Borg ships are tanks while your allies pretty support vessels keep them alive and cripple the opponents.

I mean come on. Borg are not OP. You can easily counter them with time and resources. In fact you can even kill a cube while its building.

Most of the time, facing a skilled Borg opponent, I have neither of those two.  TIME especially.  Unless you kill that first sphere or first Assimilator before the second shows up, you're dead.  If you do, then you get a chance to capitalize on it.  But even then, by the time your counterattack reaches their base they should have the second up and ready to defend.

Granted a fleet of cubes and a diamond is very deadly, but this is the game folks!

  Funny, you get pissed off any time you lose something that you really like.  "That's the game, buddy".  Your Cubes get silenced by support refits turning their weapons off?  That's the game.  You get upset that your cubes die to an intel center when you have NOTHING BUT CUBES?  That's the game.  Spam some detectors or probes for no other reason that to eat the sabotage's.

Just because you lose doesnt mean sonthing is overpowered.

Lol, so would you say that about Sensor blackout as well?  About the Intel Center?  These are all things that are not bugged, but just seem to be .... well ... OP.  How about spamming Sensor Jammer against destroyers?  OP, or just tough titties?

Borg may not be OP in the strictest sense of the word, but their playstyle is one of "All or Nothing".  That's boring.  Especially against an opponent who only wants to destroy your beginning ships so that he can mass Cubes and feel powerful...

If you let your opponents build a cube and you cant counter it, then you deserve to lose. Thats what this game is all about! Countering is what you do in this game, and if you dont like that, then this might not be the game for you.

You know ... you started this post by asking: "LOl I have another question I would like to ask. How do you fight off a fleet of Breen Battleships, or sangs, or excellsior IIs, or wabirds and valdores, or breen cruisers, or susas, or..." .... and pointed this out to show that Borg are not OP in your opinion (I think).

If you are up against a diamond and cubes, kill the diamond first! Borg may have powerfull ships, but thats because the dont have very many ships. Cubes are supposed substitute for that lack of numbers. Just because you lose to something doesnt necissarily make it over powered. Sorry if I sound a bit harsh, but come on people. Have a little common sense please.

   And yet, you keep losing your marbles when you have 10 ships total (2 cubes, 1 Diamond, and 7 freighters) and the intel center kills one of you powerful ships.  C'mon ... like you said, use some common sense.

[funnystuffpictures]

posted on December 9th, 2009, 2:53 am

Last edited by funnystuffpictures on December 9th, 2009, 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

  Well Susa's, Sang's, and breen cruisers are easy to get right off the get-go, I admit.  They are SUPER hard to kill with your first ships.  But c'mon, Excel II's?  Warbirds?  A good Borg player should never let you get those things out in the first place.

Thats true; a good "Borg" player should never let you get any of those things out. But this is not limited to just borg players. A good "player" shouldnt let you get any of those things out. However the warbird thing doesnt count as you can have a large yard before their scout can even get to your base.

  That's 1 v 1 of course.  If you're talking about team games then your ships plus your allies should be more than enough to handle them.  Borg ships are tanks while your allies pretty support vessels keep them alive and cripple the opponents.

Same with dreads, negh vars, and almost evey other ship in the game. If they have support ships, then kill them!

  Most of the time, facing a skilled Borg opponent, I have neither of those two.  TIME especially.  Unless you kill that first sphere or first Assimilator before the second shows up, you're dead.  If you do, then you get a chance to capitalize on it.  But even then, by the time your counterattack reaches their base they should have the second up and ready to defend.

Yeah... So? You suggest they dont have any defense?

  Funny, you get pissed off any time you lose something that you really like.  "That's the game, buddy".  Your Cubes get silenced by support refits turning their weapons off?  That's the game.  You get upset that your cubes die to an intel center when you have NOTHING BUT CUBES?  That's the game.  Spam some detectors or probes for no other reason that to eat the sabotage's.

You know what is also part of "The Game"? Cascade feedback, Matrix Tele, OP Dom fighters, Ram, and many other wonderful aspects. When someone gets their fleet incinerated with the click of a button, and they complain about it. Do you hear people say, "oh, you're just upset that you lost your fleet. My C-11s toasted your fleet of only vorchas, so that seems fair. Maybe if you spam some wothless ships it will use up the C-11's energy so you can cloak your other fleet and take them out.

Lol, so would you say that about Sensor blackout as well?  About the Intel Center?  These are all things that are not bugged, but just seem to be .... well ... OP.  How about spamming Sensor Jammer against destroyers?  OP, or just tough titties?

Hmm... lets not compare apples and oranges here. A cube is a ship. Sensor Jammer, Cascade feedback, and sabotage are special weopons. And also, you admit that Intell could be OP. You yourself said it was quite balanced as cubes are soo powerfull and how else is a rommulan supposed to defenend himself? That is when I told you about the generexes and their weopons disable.

Borg may not be OP in the strictest sense of the word, but their playstyle is one of "All or Nothing".  That's boring. Especially against an opponent who only wants to destroy your beginning ships so that he can mass Cubes and feel powerful...

Yes and that makes Intell soooo exiting! Oh no he has a cube! What will we do. Oh Hey; I got a spy on it. Sabotage, Sabotage! BOOM! YAY We win! I feal so powerfull! This maybe a part of another thread, but I will say that sabotaging a cube is like sabotaging a fleet of 10 Excellsior IIs, or 13 breen cruisers all at once[/quote]

  You know ... you started this post by asking: "LOl I have another question I would like to ask. How do you fight off a fleet of Breen Battleships, or sangs, or excellsior IIs, or wabirds and valdores, or breen cruisers, or susas, or..." .... and pointed this out to show that Borg are not OP in your opinion (I think).

Yes... So? My whole point was that a cube is worth the same as another race's fleet. Dont believe me? Do the math. 1 Excel II is worth 700 Di, 200 Tri, and about 20 supply. Now a cube with 3 Torp, 2 Tac, and 1 regen module is worth about 5000 Di, 1000 Tri, supply, and of course 130 connections (a significant amount of time). That means a cube is worth about 10 excellsior IIs. You should also factor in that with scounts and close attention, you cen send in 7 excellsior IIs to destroy the cube before its even built. In order to get a cube, you have to wait a realy long time, which means that there are plenty of windows to go in and wipe you're opponent out while he has minimal defense.

 And yet, you keep losing your marbles when you have 10 ships total (2 cubes, 1 Diamond, and 7 freighters) and the intel center kills one of you powerful ships.  C'mon ... like you said, use some common sense.

Once again, intell pops into this. Even if you spam a lot of worthless crap, that still doenst mean that intell wont lock onto a minner, a sphere, a dymond, and dare I say Cube! Once you're cubes and fleet are sabotaged, the only thing you can do is burn your worthless marks that arent backed up by anything.

posted on December 9th, 2009, 4:43 pm

Let me just jut in here for one quick second to say...

You know what is also part of "The Game"? Cascade feedback, Matrix Tele, OP Dom fighters, Ram, and many other wonderful aspects. When someone gets their fleet incinerated with the click of a button, and they complain about it. Do you hear people say, "oh, you're just upset that you lost your fleet. My C-11s toasted your fleet of only vorchas, so that seems fair. Maybe if you spam some wothless ships it will use up the C-11's energy so you can cloak your other fleet and take them out.

Most of these aren't a part of the game - they are mistakes. Just like all the rank up mistakes etc. If the game crashes because the BortaS uses its probe weapon, that's a glitch. For grey zone abilities, like Sensor Blackout, there is discussion - not unanimous consent.

As for the "useless crap", Assims really would do you well, as would Detectors. As I have said before, Cubes aren't the end all, and usually I find a bunch of Assims or Adaptors to be far more effective because you can retreat each one individually without losing a substantial amount of resources or firepower. Remember how you wanted to retreat your 45% health Cube in our recent 2v3? That was removing 50% of your firepower at the time.

Please though people, don't overreact so much - Intelligence Center abilities will be changed over the next two patches, but if you have an issue with it in the game, discuss it before the game and don't get angry while in it. There are ways to counter these almost overpowered strategies. True, they are annoying, but they still work.

posted on December 9th, 2009, 5:42 pm

Lol.      <---  Boggz Angry.

posted on December 9th, 2009, 5:48 pm

Dom angry ---> 

Wait, what?

posted on December 9th, 2009, 5:54 pm

Heh, no I agree with your statement on bugs vs. grey Area.

  Regarding Borg I just hate how with Borg gamestyle it's "all or nothing".  Once that first Cube is out, if you don't destroy it with your biggest fleet possible you've essentially lost.  Half the original fleet is not likely to stop it even if it's at 50%. 

  Don't get me wrong:  I think the Rommie Intel center has it's problems.  I don't like the sabotage ability at all.  BUT ... for god's sake ... make the Borg player do SOMETHING other than spam Cubes once it's possible.

posted on December 9th, 2009, 11:48 pm

Like you say Dominus, "It's more cost effective to tech up." I was talking about probes and scubes. Even with an assim it's very annoying to get is destroyed by intell. What Boggz suggested was spam probes and scubes to give the intell more targets. Assims just isnt enough to occupy it enough Im affraid . 

   Regarding Borg I just hate how with Borg gamestyle it's "all or nothing".

Racist! 

I think we should rename this thread and call it Holding off the OP Dominus Noctis.

    As the first poster to respond to this new thread I say, get yourself 6 extra players and have a good old fasion 7vs1.

   Lets just face it devs, we need the Dominus Noctis balanced for the next patch.

posted on January 11th, 2010, 2:47 pm

within the next patches we will include new features for the Borg (like for every one) and we will try to encourage building vessels other then the Cube Besides, i already think a Beam-Compensation-Sphere is quite robust nowerdays

posted on January 11th, 2010, 9:57 pm

within the next patches we will include new features for the Borg (like for every one) and we will try to encourage building vessels other then the Cube Besides, i already think a Beam-Compensation-Sphere is quite robust nowerdays

I have to disagree. It didnt died that fast in 3.07 

And speaking of Borg.... what have you done to their regeneration capabilities? It now takes ages before a damaged borg ship is repaired.  I agree that in 3.07 it was a bit too fast, but now...

posted on January 11th, 2010, 10:08 pm

Well, a Tactical Cube fully healed in a matter of a few minutes...