Early Romulan counter to Federation or Klingon turrets.

[machinor]

posted on July 8th, 2010, 1:13 am

Last edited by machinor on July 8th, 2010, 1:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

Snipe the miners with Rihenns. Then again. And again. And again. If he builds turrets all around his exp, go to his main base and snipe his miners there. Then again. And again. And again. etc.
Machiavelli wrote: "One may be able to start a war when he pleases but not to finish it when he wished to" (sounds way more elegant in Italian). Well, the Romulans can. As Romulan you fight where you please, when you please and as long as you please... if you do it right. Plus Fed miners are the most fragile after Romulan's; 3 Rihenns kill them off fairly quickly. So you could even kill at least 2 before risking to lose a Rihenn when you have phase plates.
Romulans are really nice to snipe enemy miners from a distance very early thanks to Rihenns. Use that advantage and let your fed opponent build turrety everywhere if he wants to. It's his money...

posted on July 8th, 2010, 6:40 am

In most 1v1s you will loose if you go for torp rhienns...at least if you go for these rhienns only (will be sniped). Warbirds? Against early turret? Only against nubs. Others will have ships to deal with your Cehlaer. Serkas require alot of dil...and they usually appear in mid-game so no soultion for early turret. Attack from different angels is ok, but you opponent will just send his ships while you dance around...Again its easy to say do this, or do that...ingame it proofed really difficult to go against HWP or multi phaser platforms. Especially if your enemy is agile and goes for your miners too.

posted on July 8th, 2010, 6:44 am

In most 1v1s you will loose if you go for torp rhienns...at least if you go for these rhienns only (will be sniped). Warbirds? Against early turret? Only against nubs. Others will have ships to deal with your Cehlaer. Serkas require alot of dil...and they usually appear in mid-game so no soultion for early turret. Attack from different angels is ok, but you opponent will just send his ships while you dance around...Again its easy to say do this, or do that...ingame it proofed really difficult to go against HWP or multi phaser platforms. Especially if your enemy is agile and goes for your miners too.

  Lol, I could pick this apart, or I could just summarize by saying:

  It's just easier to spam an easy ship.


  You won't lose if you go for Torp Rhienns.  You can't get them by the time a phaser platform is up, so CLEARLY no one is suggesting that.  A single Serkas can easily destroy a turret with no loss, while your other ships handle anything that comes after your Serk.


C'mon Drrr ... think outside the Gen-spam Box

posted on July 8th, 2010, 9:32 am

And don't forget that you can do what nobody expects.  Ignore the turret, and do a flyby straight through the base with 360-degree firing ships.  Griffon is good for that.  Pretty durable, quick enough for the job, and hits decently.  Just fly a group of those ships straight through, and try to get them to pop a miner before they fly home to get any damage the turret did patched up.

Even the AI pulls that stunt.

posted on July 8th, 2010, 10:38 am

What I have been noticing lately is that when a opponent rushes a constructor to their natural expansion and builds a turret first, that expansion (depending on placement) is pretty-much untouchable

  You won't lose if you go for Torp Rhienns.  You can't get them by the time a phaser platform is up, so CLEARLY no one is suggesting that.  A single Serkas can easily destroy a turret with no loss, while your other ships handle anything that comes after your Serk.

Well did I miss somthing about the topic...he asked what can be done against early turrets...Trop rhienns are not against early anything.they cost too much and die to fast...thats what my answer was regarding the topic.

A single Serkas can easily destroy a turret with no loss, while your other ships handle anything that comes after your Serk.

Boggz I dont know against what kinf of ppl you tried this...try it against Mort or Stardust and you will loose your serkas before you can do anything useful...I bet. Serkas are ok if no enemy ships are nearby.

In most cases there are two ways for victory as Rom in 1v1 and 2v2...first, make use of all Generix. second, go for rhienns and some mixed in Leavhals and Griffins -> advance to refits. Other strategies for rom can be countered very easily by most races...e.g. Leavhal or Griffin spam. And Warbirds work best if your mining is ok all the time -> not the case against a aggressive opponent.

The point is, that you should not only look for "How to deal with the turrets"...if you want to win, you have to consider opp. ships as well...

posted on July 8th, 2010, 11:00 am

Serkas are ok if no enemy ships are nearby.

thats not true, if u bring a serkas out you are almost guaranteed they will go after it, so u can keep your efforts near there. keep a cloaked scout to spot incoming feds or keep a talon refit nearby to stop klinks getting close enough and keep your fleet there too. you will be able to protect the serkas.

posted on July 8th, 2010, 1:57 pm

Serkas /w Silent Resolve & Rheinns with Phase Plates FTW.    Works pretty good for other things too. 

I don't like the fact that I have to build both the Research Institute and the Tal'Shiar that early in the game, but it works like a charm with two Serkas supported by several Rheinns or Shrikes. 

.....as everyone else has stated, it is best to just ignore the platform and concentrate on the miners, but at least there IS a combination that can take-down those nasty turrets pretty quickly.

posted on July 8th, 2010, 5:44 pm

Boggz I dont know against what kinf of ppl you tried this...try it against Mort or Stardust and you will loose your serkas before you can do anything useful...I bet. Serkas are ok if no enemy ships are nearby.

Haha, "lose" only has 1 'o'.  I wouldn't normally say anything but that's like the fifth time you've done it this thread .

  Look, Mort and Star are good, yes.  HOWEVER, if you use smart tactics against them you can be good too!!   Since we are talking about how to handle FED PHASER PLATFORMS, they will likely not have any cloaked ships.  That means you get to know where their vessels are at all times.  Decloak your serkas a ways back from the turret, move it up into range, and start unloading.  When they bring ship like Intrepids or Monsoons up to destroy your Serkas, CLOAK IT.  Boom.  If they bring up a scout, decloak the Rhienn/Leahval fleet you're using to guard the Serkas and blast it away.

  I just don't understand your pessimism for anything that isn't Gen spam.  I'm inclined to say that you don't believe it will work because you've never bothered to TRY IT

In most cases there are two ways for victory as Rom in 1v1 and 2v2...first, make use of all Generix.

*GASP* 

second, go for rhienns and some mixed in Leavhals and Griffins -> advance to refits. Other strategies for rom can be countered very easily by most races...e.g. Leavhal or Griffin spam. And Warbirds work best if your mining is ok all the time -> not the case against a aggressive opponent.

  So you realize you just recommended here EXACTLY what I was suggesting, only you decided to leave out the single Serkas I recommended for DEALING WITH A PHASER TURRET.

The point is, that you should not only look for "How to deal with the turrets"...if you want to win, you have to consider opp. ships as well...

  That's the point of the thread .... you're getting a little ahead of yourself, Mr. Guru.

posted on July 8th, 2010, 6:02 pm

Boggz! First thx for the "o"...always thought 2 are right

What you miss is, that we speak about phaser and HWP EARLY <- !
That means you will hardly have res for serkas imo. But it depends too much on the map maybe...in Duel, for example, a HWP or phaser in the center is very good. And if you get a yard there...your base miners are fairly well protected too since the opp can easily reach you from the center.

posted on July 8th, 2010, 6:40 pm

You can get a Serkas before you can get a Specter or Frigate Refit .

  I wouldn't recommend that, as the Serkas is not a fighting ship.

  Look, Drrr .... a lot of people read these threads for ADVICE that they'd like to use in game.  Hearing someone like you poo-poo every strategy that is not "spam a ship that clearly needs a slight balance alteration" is not always a good thing.

  The question here is:

"Early Romulan Counter to Federation or Klingon Turrets"

  THE SERKAS IS A COUNTER TO TURRETS.  Get it?  It strikes from out of range, does immense damage to buildings, and you only need 1 at the very minimum because it's so powerful and can strike unmolested.  Generix Frigates and Specs are pulse-armed, i.e. NOT good for handling Turrets.  Either one of those turrets will cause you far more grief for your precious Generix than it will a single Serkas.





  Now stop arbitrarily recommending Gen spam.

posted on July 8th, 2010, 10:50 pm

I'm all for having a good laugh at mindless generix spam.  However, in this case spectres perform decently due to the decreased damage they take from the Heavy Weapons Platform.  What Boggz is trying to make clear is that the Romulans are very flexible when it comes to handling a HWP.

Just one serkas is all you need, since you won't be trying to take one on while a defending fleet is there.

Machinor has already mentioned that rhienns can still hit mining, just make sure to set your ships on low movement and keep them out of range of the platform.

The Cehlar makes a great tank, as usually turrets will target the first vessel that comes into range.  So you can send your rhienns and shrikes in to take out miners while the Cehlar laughs off the damage.  Just be sure to watch and make sure the platform doesn't switch targets.   If it does, disruptor bombard it.

As Boggz said, a few support generix with most any other romulan vessel will get the job done.

I'm not saying anything new here, just making it clear that you've got options when those insufferable klingons have protected their mining.

posted on July 9th, 2010, 7:15 am

spam a ship that clearly needs a slight balance alteration

Did you realize that all Generix are damn slow? So how about trying a new strategy including some fast ships to take out miners fast? This will at least work in 1v1 and probably in 2v2. Its the weak point of any Generix spam. If you just sit there putting no pressure in early-game you chose a wrong strategy.

[Anonymous]

posted on July 9th, 2010, 12:02 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on July 9th, 2010, 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Boggz I dont know against what kinf of ppl you tried this...try it against Mort or Stardust and you will loose your serkas before you can do anything useful...I bet. Serkas are ok if no enemy ships are nearby.

Actually, upgraded Serkas seem to only need 6 "regular" shots to take out a platform.  Add-in the special...and it goes down VERY quick from what I've seen.  I'm not sure what that works-out to in seconds, but that's really darn close to the amount of time it takes for my Rhienns to take-out a miner or two.

If you've done your homework properly with Romulan scouts, the enemy fleet is not an issue, because you already know their location.

The point is, that you should not only look for "How to deal with the turrets"...if you want to win, you have to consider opp. ships as well...

That's all well and nice, but "How to deal with the turrets" was the whole point of this thread. You can't just discount these weapon platforms when considering counters to opponents, since many of the Romulan ships are either short range or medium range.   I was struggling to find a good counter to them, as I would consistently risk losing 2-3 ships (out of say a 10-ship fleet) trying to take down expansions defended in part by turrets, going from early-game to mid-game.

I had one MP game in which I took a 15-ship fleet into an expansion guarded by a 4-ship Fed fleet w/ a turret, but had to back-off because the turret helped to disable 8 ships (which happened to be mostly Shrikes) while I was concentrating fire on the miners & warships. 

A second game, I came with 10 ships on an expansion guarded by a single turret, and destroyed the miners and a constructor easy enough.  However, when it came time to concentrate fire on the turret....I had to withdraw 7 ships (mostly Rhienns this time) and stayed until the opposition fleet arrive to take-down the platform (maybe 10 volleys of firing).   

The nail-in-the-coffin game was a 2v2 in which I took a fleet of 4 Rhienns, 2 Shrikes, and a Leahval into an expansion, and had to withdraw the whole fleet because a Platform added just enough firepower to take-down the Shrikes and Leahvals by the time the opposing fleet arrived.

The point being I lost the initiative, because the damaged ships required me to regroup and repair my fleet, while my opponent pressed my expansion with his fleet.  It was this last game which prompted me to look for a "quicker" counter to the turrets, as it was obvious that those ships could not counter a platform in small numbers.

In most cases there are two ways for victory as Rom in 1v1 and 2v2...first, make use of all Generix. second, go for rhienns and some mixed in Leavhals and Griffins -> advance to refits. Other strategies for rom can be countered very easily by most races...e.g. Leavhal or Griffin spam. And Warbirds work best if your mining is ok all the time -> not the case against a aggressive opponent.

It is common knowledge that the strongest strategy for a Romulan player is to have a well-mixed fleet, but I don't see anything in this advice which would help with the topic at hand. 

Generix are mid-game units, unless you rush them...and if you do that, you can't get the early-game numbers you need to be an effective counter to Platforms, let alone an attacking enemy fleet.

Rhienns mixed with Leahvals & Griffins early game are ok, but if you advance to refits you can only build either the Tal'Shiar (for Generix route, as you suggest) or the Upgrade facility (for Rhienn refits), not both.  Even with one of those and two moon-pair mining, it is almost mid-game before you can start fielding refits.  If your opponent is -any- good at this point, your expansion has been raided at least once or twice, which completely rules-out any consideration of Warbirds at this point, because you really need an additional Dilithum mining operation pump out Warbirds in any quantity (which rarely happens in most MP games).

However, I digress....we're getting into general Romulan strategy, which I don't think needs to be rehashed.

posted on July 9th, 2010, 12:17 pm

Well said, NeroDan.

posted on July 9th, 2010, 8:56 pm

Hear, Hear .