cubes and others
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posted on February 17th, 2013, 6:52 pm
MegaBorg wrote:In Q who, when the enterprise first encounters the borg, data does give dimensions for the cube. Later in BoBW data says that he is not sure if its the same cube as in Q Who but he does say it has the same dimensions. In First Contact the cube has a sphere inside yet again another feature that all cubes were suppose to have....therefore maybe all cubes are command cubes??
your logic completely unravels in the last sentence.
the cube in BoBW is implied to be the exact same cube that they met in q who, so of course it will be the same size. it was on its way to earth in q who.
other than that we don't know the sizes of any of the other cubes. the FC cube could be bigger or smaller than the BoBW cube. the voyager cubes do look weaker and smaller than the previous cubes.
we've only seen 1 cube with a sphere (also size unknown) inside. 1 cube. no cube in voyager ever laid a sphere. so there's no evidence that spheres are "a feature that all cubes were suppose[d] to have".
so no, all cubes being command cubes doesn't follow from the evidence at all.
posted on February 17th, 2013, 9:23 pm
@Myles: How could the cube in Q Who be on its way to Earth when right in the episode it's stated that the Borg didn't even know about Earth or humanity yet?
The cubes are different, case and point if you listen to the dialogue for First Contact, the Borg Queen confirms pretty much what Picard said about her being n the cube in Best of Both Worlds. Logical thinking would point to them being two different cubes.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Q_Who_(episode)
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Best_of_Both_Worlds_(episode)
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_First_Contact
There is actually nothing in these episodes (Q Who and Best of Both Worlds) to even imply that they really are the same cube. All you can really assume is that it was a "distant early warning" to a threat the Federation actually knew nothing about but looking at it from a logical perspective, the same can be said that the Borg didn't know about Humanity. They did of course learn about First Contact's date easily from the assimilation of Captain Picard.
Plus it's up to you if you want to believe that the Borg did or didn't receive the message from the Assimilated Earth Arctic Transport just before the Enterprise NX-01 destroyed it in the episode "Regeneration", if you go by that, then yes the Borg possibly knew about Humanity and then possibly the Borg cube in Q Who was on its way to Earth and could (repeat COULD) have been the same cube in the Best of Both Worlds episode.
The jury is still out on that one so to speak.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Regeneration_(episode)
The cubes are different, case and point if you listen to the dialogue for First Contact, the Borg Queen confirms pretty much what Picard said about her being n the cube in Best of Both Worlds. Logical thinking would point to them being two different cubes.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Q_Who_(episode)
Reflecting upon events in Ten Forward with Picard, Guinan says that the encounter with the Borg happened before it should have, and for the moment, the Borg are only capable of seeing the Federation as "raw material to them". And because they are now, Guinan begins, "aware of our existence," "they will be coming," Picard continues. Guinan ominously says, "You can bet on it." Picard comments that perhaps Q did the right thing for the wrong reasons, to shake humanity out of its complacency for whatever lies ahead.
It's later revealed that due to the events shown in Star Trek: First Contact and "Regeneration" the Borg already knew of Earth's existence and were on their way. This means Q's actions were an early warning for the Federation. Later, on Star Trek Voyager, Q would say if it wasn't for this early warning, the Federation would have been assimilated.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Best_of_Both_Worlds_(episode)
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_First_Contact
There is actually nothing in these episodes (Q Who and Best of Both Worlds) to even imply that they really are the same cube. All you can really assume is that it was a "distant early warning" to a threat the Federation actually knew nothing about but looking at it from a logical perspective, the same can be said that the Borg didn't know about Humanity. They did of course learn about First Contact's date easily from the assimilation of Captain Picard.
Plus it's up to you if you want to believe that the Borg did or didn't receive the message from the Assimilated Earth Arctic Transport just before the Enterprise NX-01 destroyed it in the episode "Regeneration", if you go by that, then yes the Borg possibly knew about Humanity and then possibly the Borg cube in Q Who was on its way to Earth and could (repeat COULD) have been the same cube in the Best of Both Worlds episode.
The jury is still out on that one so to speak.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Regeneration_(episode)
posted on February 17th, 2013, 9:40 pm
I would also like to clarify that Memory Alpha doesn't have anything about any Borg Command Cube and really nothing in any of the series has been called a Command Cube. It's really an implied thing by different fans.
In Star Trek Armada I there has to be a Command cube because in Star Trek Armada II there is an ODF file in the ships folder titled "bmama.odf" and it doesn't fully appear as a Buildable unit to the Borg but it could be the ship that comes through the Transwarp Portal in one of the Federation missions. Inside this ODF file the ship is called a "Mamacube" which could also mean its a "Command Cube".
Here are some possible Borg Command Ships:
From Star Trek Online, the "Unimatrix 0047 Command Ship":
http://www.stowiki.org/Unimatrix_0047_Command_Ship
Memory Beta link for the STO Borg Command Ship:
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Borg_command_ship
Borg ships in STO:
http://www.stowiki.org/Borg_Invasion
By the way, I did a Google Search on this term: "Borg Command Cube" and nothing directly came up, you are of course welcome to do the search yourself. Here is the url for my original search:
http://www.google.com/#sclient=tablet-gws&hl=en&safe=off&tbo=d&q=borg+command+cube&oq=Borg+Command+Cube&gs_l=tablet-gws.1.0.0i30.2949.11471.0.13243.17.12.0.5.5.0.898.3331.3j5j1j5-2j1.12.0.les%3B..0.0...1ac.1.3.tablet-gws.LQiqjEiabzY&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&bvm=bv.42553238,d.dmQ&fp=4f798527d1d879dc&biw=768&bih=928
In Star Trek Armada I there has to be a Command cube because in Star Trek Armada II there is an ODF file in the ships folder titled "bmama.odf" and it doesn't fully appear as a Buildable unit to the Borg but it could be the ship that comes through the Transwarp Portal in one of the Federation missions. Inside this ODF file the ship is called a "Mamacube" which could also mean its a "Command Cube".
Here are some possible Borg Command Ships:
From Star Trek Online, the "Unimatrix 0047 Command Ship":
http://www.stowiki.org/Unimatrix_0047_Command_Ship
Memory Beta link for the STO Borg Command Ship:
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Borg_command_ship
Borg ships in STO:
http://www.stowiki.org/Borg_Invasion
By the way, I did a Google Search on this term: "Borg Command Cube" and nothing directly came up, you are of course welcome to do the search yourself. Here is the url for my original search:
http://www.google.com/#sclient=tablet-gws&hl=en&safe=off&tbo=d&q=borg+command+cube&oq=Borg+Command+Cube&gs_l=tablet-gws.1.0.0i30.2949.11471.0.13243.17.12.0.5.5.0.898.3331.3j5j1j5-2j1.12.0.les%3B..0.0...1ac.1.3.tablet-gws.LQiqjEiabzY&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&bvm=bv.42553238,d.dmQ&fp=4f798527d1d879dc&biw=768&bih=928
posted on February 17th, 2013, 9:52 pm
Je_mezu24 wrote:@Myles: How could the cube in Q Who be on its way to Earth when right in the episode it's stated that the Borg didn't even know about Earth or humanity yet?
do you even proof read before you hit submit? i don't even need to link to ENT: regeneration, you did it for me later in your post. as i said, we're talking about implications here, it was left vague in the show so that they weren't written into a corner. we can choose whether to accept or dismiss the implication in fanon.
Je_mezu24 wrote:It's really an implied thing by different fans.
and who said anything that contradicts this? you so desperately want to be right on the internet that you're making up dissonance where none exists. nobody said the command cube is canon. it's a fanon way to plug the plot hole caused by villain decay in voyager. nothing more. calm your tits.
posted on February 17th, 2013, 11:10 pm
How do you folks end up bickering all the time.
It happened in a topic not long ago about saucer separation and now here.
If you folks aim to get topics closed then by all means continue, but if you want a worthwhile discussion then back away and take time to properly read each others replies.
It happened in a topic not long ago about saucer separation and now here.
If you folks aim to get topics closed then by all means continue, but if you want a worthwhile discussion then back away and take time to properly read each others replies.
posted on February 17th, 2013, 11:17 pm
I think it's just a compulsion to 'correct' things.
posted on February 18th, 2013, 12:40 am
@Andre27: I always take time to read ever post here, and in no way do I ever want to bicker, no I just feel its right to state the facts so everyone has clear and precise information, and when I make any mistake, I'm always 100% willing to admit it, usually it's a rarity because I always attempt to find sources to backup things I say.
@Myles: I always proof read what I write, it's very important to do with anything written and I do so, if someone thinks something reads wrong, most likely they are reading it in the wrong context, the same goes when I post any type of question.
First and foremost, not everyone considers Star Trek Enterprise to fully be part of the Star Trek Universe, hence the reason why I wrote the part/section the way I did considering the episode Regeneration, especially since that episode came out many years after TNG ended and in a way was a tiein to First Contact, with something that isn't fully plausible scientifically. All the debris from that Norg sphere should never have been found in the quantity that it was in Regeneration because it would have burnt up in Earth's atmosphere or wouldn't even have managed to get that close to the planet, it's something that can be consider with modern science, and even Astronomy.
Why do you have to assume that I am trying to do something I am not? I am not making up dissonance, especially since it doesn't exist, I'm yet again only just stating a fact, you make it look like a crime.
Plus I consider it very disrespectful and rude Myles with this statement of yours:
Don't you have any respect at all? I only respect those who respect me and you clearly are being disrespectful and I'd appreciate it if it stops immediately. What you said is disrespectful to both men and women and really is plainly uncalled for.
@Myles: I always proof read what I write, it's very important to do with anything written and I do so, if someone thinks something reads wrong, most likely they are reading it in the wrong context, the same goes when I post any type of question.
First and foremost, not everyone considers Star Trek Enterprise to fully be part of the Star Trek Universe, hence the reason why I wrote the part/section the way I did considering the episode Regeneration, especially since that episode came out many years after TNG ended and in a way was a tiein to First Contact, with something that isn't fully plausible scientifically. All the debris from that Norg sphere should never have been found in the quantity that it was in Regeneration because it would have burnt up in Earth's atmosphere or wouldn't even have managed to get that close to the planet, it's something that can be consider with modern science, and even Astronomy.
Why do you have to assume that I am trying to do something I am not? I am not making up dissonance, especially since it doesn't exist, I'm yet again only just stating a fact, you make it look like a crime.
Plus I consider it very disrespectful and rude Myles with this statement of yours:
"Calm your tits."
Don't you have any respect at all? I only respect those who respect me and you clearly are being disrespectful and I'd appreciate it if it stops immediately. What you said is disrespectful to both men and women and really is plainly uncalled for.
posted on February 18th, 2013, 1:46 am
@Je_mezu24: Enterprise IS canon, people cant just say its not an ignore it, its there and it happened. And who is to say what would have happened to that sphere in orbit? We know Borg ships are tough, who knows how much of the wreckage would have survived. The only real gripe I have with that episode was they way the debris was layed out and the scientists figuring it was a sphere in shape, i mean the thing was blown up then crash landed, it shoulda been pretty impossible for them to know what it looked like whatsoever.
To me Regeneration kinda brings the Borg full circle, I thought it was a good episode. And I know where Myles is comming from because I beleve in the original storyboard the idea was that in Q Who the cube WAS on its way to federation space, I remember reading a reference to the episode where they state Q threw the Enterprise D into the path of a cube that was already on its way. And I know its not canon because its not directly stated, but in the context of the episode Regeneration it makes perfect sense.
To me Regeneration kinda brings the Borg full circle, I thought it was a good episode. And I know where Myles is comming from because I beleve in the original storyboard the idea was that in Q Who the cube WAS on its way to federation space, I remember reading a reference to the episode where they state Q threw the Enterprise D into the path of a cube that was already on its way. And I know its not canon because its not directly stated, but in the context of the episode Regeneration it makes perfect sense.
posted on February 18th, 2013, 2:47 am
@Equinox1701e: I know Enterprise is cannon, but it is also a prequel to the original series first, so that means its a prequel to TNG, so sometimes you have to think outside the box like with the Borg and those episodes. What if Star Trek Enterprise never happened?
And the point you raise with the sphere and its wreckage. Do you know what happens to a orbiting satellite we have put into orbit around Earth, and when they do fall out of the sky and decay in Earth's atmosphere. You still have to think about what kind of damage from the explosion happens to the wreckage, how it might get deformed and defragmented.
Every time I watch either First Contact or Regeneration, I always seem to be thinking about those type of questions.
Any projected course in theory could reach Federation Space in my opinion and the Alpha Quadrant. Remember the refuges in Star Trek Generations when the USS Enterprise NCC 1701-B was damaged by the Nexus (Energy Ribbon), the El-Aurians' home world was actually attacked by the Borg, so one of two things is possible:
(1) The Borg had already made it to Federation Space
(2) The El-Aurian's home world is pretty close to Federation Space.
Both of these reasons make me think that the Borg have already been to Federation Space or at least the Federation already knew about them. Sometimes many of the Borg episodes make me wonder about different things and come up with questions, especially how come in canon they have very little in many different kinds of ships?
And the point you raise with the sphere and its wreckage. Do you know what happens to a orbiting satellite we have put into orbit around Earth, and when they do fall out of the sky and decay in Earth's atmosphere. You still have to think about what kind of damage from the explosion happens to the wreckage, how it might get deformed and defragmented.
Every time I watch either First Contact or Regeneration, I always seem to be thinking about those type of questions.
Any projected course in theory could reach Federation Space in my opinion and the Alpha Quadrant. Remember the refuges in Star Trek Generations when the USS Enterprise NCC 1701-B was damaged by the Nexus (Energy Ribbon), the El-Aurians' home world was actually attacked by the Borg, so one of two things is possible:
(1) The Borg had already made it to Federation Space
(2) The El-Aurian's home world is pretty close to Federation Space.
Both of these reasons make me think that the Borg have already been to Federation Space or at least the Federation already knew about them. Sometimes many of the Borg episodes make me wonder about different things and come up with questions, especially how come in canon they have very little in many different kinds of ships?
posted on February 18th, 2013, 3:30 am
I like Star trek I really do, I have seen all the episodes and films multiple times. When I turn on the TV and see an episode is on I'll usually watch it for the millionth time. However, I also really like fleet ops. Fleet ops is fun where I can enjoy moving ships from the show around the map and get to play with tech inspired by the genre even if it isn't technically cannon. Because I really like fleet ops I, pathetically, check the site once or twice a day to see if there is any updates on the game or get the thoughts of other platers on what would be cool to have in game.
What I am not so much a fan of, however, is clicking on a thread that sets out to talk about such things to find it has been hija.....diverted to talking pointlessly about canon with one or two people in particular taking things to seriously and personally. All in all it has bee rather off putting.
In terms of gameplay I personally like the idea of a command cube. I am curious about the implementation mostly because it would risk being either too powerful or too expensive. Then again I do love the Borg which seem to be able to take on fleets with a couple ships so my preferences wouldn't mind having less ships in total, with those remaining being powerful, as long as early game defence is not too weak of course. What I reckon the developers might have in mind is a cube that is roughly similar to the other options, but focuses much much more on specials that organise other ships. It would be cool if it was larger than anything and had something unusual like a sphere pop out when destroyed but I would guess the tactical cube will remain the main weapons platform.
The developers seem to be finishing up the feds and the roms, so with luck we will soon be getting teasing articles about other factions like the borg. Don't get your hopes too high for an article on the command cube though, I vaguely remember people hoping for one on the Sovereign updates.
What I am not so much a fan of, however, is clicking on a thread that sets out to talk about such things to find it has been hija.....diverted to talking pointlessly about canon with one or two people in particular taking things to seriously and personally. All in all it has bee rather off putting.
In terms of gameplay I personally like the idea of a command cube. I am curious about the implementation mostly because it would risk being either too powerful or too expensive. Then again I do love the Borg which seem to be able to take on fleets with a couple ships so my preferences wouldn't mind having less ships in total, with those remaining being powerful, as long as early game defence is not too weak of course. What I reckon the developers might have in mind is a cube that is roughly similar to the other options, but focuses much much more on specials that organise other ships. It would be cool if it was larger than anything and had something unusual like a sphere pop out when destroyed but I would guess the tactical cube will remain the main weapons platform.
The developers seem to be finishing up the feds and the roms, so with luck we will soon be getting teasing articles about other factions like the borg. Don't get your hopes too high for an article on the command cube though, I vaguely remember people hoping for one on the Sovereign updates.
posted on February 19th, 2013, 12:55 am
@Je_mezu24: I know Enterprise is a prequel, and we dont HAVE to wonder how things would be if Enterprise never happened because it DID happen. What if Voyager never happened? The Borg would still be scary, but Voyager did happen so the Borg are a bunch of bungling idiots and we have to live with that.
And as far as the wreckage is concerned, Im well aware that thing burn up in a planets atmosphere, but comparing a Borg ship to a modern day satellite is a bit silly, the Borg are technologically FAR beyond anything we have, who knows how sturdy even the wreckage of a sphere is? And i agree the wreckage would hardly be able to be identified as a sphere (which i already said previously) but I dont think it would be out of the realm of possibility that a sizeable amount of wreckage could have made it to the surface intact. You have to remember a sphere isnt exactly a small ship.
And as far as El-Aurians, the system Q whisked the Enterprise D to in Q-Who was near the part of space where Guinan was from, so it seems to me that El-Aurian space is roughly 2 years away at maximum warp from Federation space, so they arnt exactly neigbors. So by the time of Generations, no the Borg had not been in Federation space unless you count regeneration. Although earlier in TNG before Q who they were hinted at by the destroyed outposts along the Romulan neutral zone, supposedly that was the work of the Borg, and so they were at some point near the fringe of federation space, but formal contact, didnt seem to happen untill Q who.
And as far as the wreckage is concerned, Im well aware that thing burn up in a planets atmosphere, but comparing a Borg ship to a modern day satellite is a bit silly, the Borg are technologically FAR beyond anything we have, who knows how sturdy even the wreckage of a sphere is? And i agree the wreckage would hardly be able to be identified as a sphere (which i already said previously) but I dont think it would be out of the realm of possibility that a sizeable amount of wreckage could have made it to the surface intact. You have to remember a sphere isnt exactly a small ship.
And as far as El-Aurians, the system Q whisked the Enterprise D to in Q-Who was near the part of space where Guinan was from, so it seems to me that El-Aurian space is roughly 2 years away at maximum warp from Federation space, so they arnt exactly neigbors. So by the time of Generations, no the Borg had not been in Federation space unless you count regeneration. Although earlier in TNG before Q who they were hinted at by the destroyed outposts along the Romulan neutral zone, supposedly that was the work of the Borg, and so they were at some point near the fringe of federation space, but formal contact, didnt seem to happen untill Q who.
posted on February 19th, 2013, 8:47 am
@Equinox1701e: Seems like you are not u dear standing what I'm actually trying to say, aren't getting the context of what I'm saying.
The Borg though were just as string as they had ever been in Star Trek Voyager, just because Species 8472 could beat them doesn't mean that the Borg are weak. Plus if the Borg Queen really wanted to assimilate the USS Viyager it would have happened. It was just one ship and thus really didn't fully represent a threat. Even Picard said the Borg ignore everything they don't consider a threat, to quote his words from First Contcat: "They'll ignore us until they consider us a threat."
Plus you have to remember during Star Trek First Contact, the USS Voyager was still in the Delta Quadrant, so with all due respect, I don't believe that why you're saying:
They never said what the system where the El-Aurian's are from is, so that's really just speculation.
I really don't give a care about this though
The Borg though were just as string as they had ever been in Star Trek Voyager, just because Species 8472 could beat them doesn't mean that the Borg are weak. Plus if the Borg Queen really wanted to assimilate the USS Viyager it would have happened. It was just one ship and thus really didn't fully represent a threat. Even Picard said the Borg ignore everything they don't consider a threat, to quote his words from First Contcat: "They'll ignore us until they consider us a threat."
Plus you have to remember during Star Trek First Contact, the USS Voyager was still in the Delta Quadrant, so with all due respect, I don't believe that why you're saying:
as a while, the Birg were/are more of a threat to humanity, the Federation and every other race in Star Trek, if anything Voyager took that fact further and showed it in many different episodes featuring the Borg. Especially since they were able to detect the Delta Flyer which in fact incorporated with Borg technology.but Voyager did happen so the Borg are a bunch of bungling idiots and we have to live with that.
They never said what the system where the El-Aurian's are from is, so that's really just speculation.
I really don't give a care about this though
posted on February 19th, 2013, 10:23 am
i think this thread has given me enough cancer for today. i'll get out while i can.
posted on February 19th, 2013, 11:44 pm
Im with Myles on this one.
posted on February 19th, 2013, 11:56 pm
Is it me or are posts being taken over by a minority needlessly bickering over canon storyline? Lemme know when things cheer up and the community get back on to discussing fleet ops.
I'm sure there must be a cave somewhere on the internet where these people can go to be bitter and to dispute each other.
I'm sure there must be a cave somewhere on the internet where these people can go to be bitter and to dispute each other.
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