Name of the Ferengi Empire

posted on February 28th, 2010, 8:32 am

Just to throw my 2 cents at this discussion I believe in equality of opportunity not equality of outcome. The world is what you make it. Sure things so wrong and their are circumstances beyond your control. But this has never stopped people before if they wanted something. I would hate to thing of my government limiting me in success or failure. Some of the richest people in this world have gone bankrupt several times but they picked themselves back up and tried it again. The governments job is to protect people not provide for them.

posted on March 1st, 2010, 12:59 pm

but in this imperfect world, It is best that people pay for their mistakes, and are rewarded for their Achievements.  Nobody should be forced to give their best to someone else.  Not saying thats bad, but they shouldn't be forced down like that.  It removes the Term Charity form any vocabulary. 

Unfortunately, because Capatilizm is all we have that works right now, (unless you are willing to force people to do things) there will be people that Die in the streets.  That is why I said a limited bit of government involve ment is good, because they can give them a job if they can't get one themselves.  They can keep them from Dying, but they will also have to suffer with the boreing jobe people don't want to do unless they earn a higher position.  Everyone starts that way int he real world, and sometimes you have to start over .

In my eyes capitalism isn't working, the crisis right now proves this again. I agree with you, people making mistakes should be punished. The worst criminals, the producer of the crisis weren't punished, though, they got some millions and a "try again" and that's it. Those people should rot in a prison, were they belong to, but because of their money and influence they are able to buy themselves free. The western "democracy" is an illusion, due to the fact that the economy stays uneffected by the government(and, as you stated, it is a core argument of capitalism, so it won't be changed). This is the problem, why real democracy and capitalism can't be linked. The governments are the ones who are elected, but they are not the ones with the power.
Just like in the Ferengi-Alliance: no one elects the Grand Nagus, however, he's the richest Ferengi, so he's the leader. Governments, politics and economics are always left aside in Star Trek (it is entertainment after all ), however, the Ferengi are obviously an interesting caricature.

[Atlantisbase]

posted on March 1st, 2010, 6:17 pm

Last edited by Atlantisbase on March 1st, 2010, 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

You must realize this up and down cycle has been happening for eons. You will have a hell of a time pointing fingers at anyone simply because no one person or group of people is the cause. I personally see the Congress as primarily at fault. They are the ones who let companies that aren't explicitly banks lend out money, primarily to home buyers, and get involved in the trading of loans. Yes, not only were these investment companies establishing loans, but they were buying loans from other companies, including banks. The catch was that most of these loans were variable rate loans which these companies then jacked up to high interest rates resulting in people defaulting on their loans. Banks then clamp down on lending which reduces spending overall which leads companies to believe that they will not be able to sell as much so they cut back and try to reduce costs which leads to layoffs and then people have even less money and more people default, and well you get the idea.

The issue of government involvement in the economy has been a point of political and social contention for the last two hundred years, at least in America. For the first hundred it was all about national banks and whether to use the gold or silver standard. For the last hundred it has been about regulation and government support in "hard times". The fact of the matter is this up and down cycle is nothing new and there are about half a dozen theories about why it happens and how to get out of it with the two biggies being one by John Maynard Keyens and the other being Friedrich von Hayek. And ultimately, probably none of them have it quite right. There will always be complaints about government being too involved or being not involved enough. Just ignore it and keep living life as best you can. Please also keep in mind that America is not technically a "Democracy" we are a Representative Democracy which means we don't make decisions, we select people who make them for us with the assumption that the people we select want the same thing we want. In practice it doesn't quite work that way.

posted on March 1st, 2010, 6:46 pm

I agree with you completely although technically we are a federal republic. However the idea that states have a say in the federal government died with the civil war and was completely forgotten with the 17 amendment.

posted on March 1st, 2010, 7:27 pm

As usual, I agree completely with you atlantisbase

In my eyes capitalism isn't working, the crisis right now proves this again. I agree with you, people making mistakes should be punished. The worst criminals, the producer of the crisis weren't punished, though, they got some millions and a "try again" and that's it. Those people should rot in a prison, were they belong to, but because of their money and influence they are able to buy themselves free. The western "democracy" is an illusion, due to the fact that the economy stays uneffected by the government(and, as you stated, it is a core argument of capitalism, so it won't be changed). This is the problem, why real democracy and capitalism can't be linked. The governments are the ones who are elected, but they are not the ones with the power.
Just like in the Ferengi-Alliance: no one elects the Grand Nagus, however, he's the richest Ferengi, so he's the leader. Governments, politics and economics are always left aside in Star Trek (it is entertainment after all ), however, the Ferengi are obviously an interesting caricature.

My friend, Capitalism didn't cause the problem, it was the limitations that the government placed in its way(namely taxes, and overall bad decisions) I agree with you that the causers should be punished, but the ones I'm talking about don't have the mony to buy them selfs out of jail . that and it is not private people that caused the so-called crisis we live in today.  it is the government officals(I'm not just talking about the current ones) and the people that mad bad decisions, took out bad loans, ect.

On top of this the government told them they could, didn't punish them, therefore causing a false sense of ownership, and when they couldn't pay, every thing went up in smoke.

And yes, A free market, is capitalism.

Unfortunatly, you seem to think the government should be in charge of everything, otherwise you wouldn't have a problem with companys having more power than the government.  the Gov't is there to insure that our God-Given, rights are not infringed upon, including our right to pursue happiness.  Too many people think that means that the Gov't is to insure we are happy, and get what we want, and never get fired.  This is not what it means.  It means they are supposed to make sure nobody gets in your way of trying your best. So if that means that id a company says you need to have a degree before you work there, it is not the governments job to stop them, because you don't have to have to have that job.

They are there to insure we are safe, and not harmed, and not discriminated against, or attacked.  to insure we can get some kind of work (minimum pay), and don't die in the streets, or infringe on others rights.

Where in there can you find capitalism in action?  You keep saying our government is capitalist, but it isn't.  Its the people who are, and there is no need for them to be.  All they are supposed to do is keep us safe.  That is it.