DS9/Babylon 5 conspiracy FAQ

posted on November 18th, 2010, 10:46 pm

A detailed and serious in-depth look at the issue.

The Babylon 5 vs. Deep Space Nine FAQ

Dominus_Noctis

Dev Team

11934 posts

posted on November 18th, 2010, 11:35 pm

Sounds reasonable to me :thumbsup:

Andre27

1294 posts

posted on November 19th, 2010, 1:00 am

:wheelchair: I need a double facepalm for that one

Abraxas

40 posts

posted on November 19th, 2010, 6:53 pm

Question #34 - What if I like both?

:shifty:

The Undying Nephalim

844 posts

posted on November 19th, 2010, 7:20 pm

Sounds like a Vorlon wrote this FAQ :rolleyes:

It's funny, I started rewatching B5 about a week ago after not seeing it for almost 10 years, and it's crazy just how many things I'm noticing that are eerily similar to DS9...

- Both feature a station
- Whitestar/ Defiant
- Hyperspace Gate, Wormhole
- Vorlon Bioships, Species 8472 Bioships (ok that's technically voyager, but they look the same!)
- Sinclar's baseball memorabilia/ Sisko's love for baseball
- Gaim/ Breen
- Raiders/ Maquis
- Dukhat/ Dukat...

And that's only what I've noticed in the first few episodes. :blink:

posted on November 19th, 2010, 7:23 pm

Coincidences can certainly be astounding things.

Quatre

217 posts

posted on November 19th, 2010, 8:11 pm

Wiki:

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine controversy

The pilot episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine (DS9) aired just weeks before the debut of Babylon 5. Babylon 5 creator J. Michael Straczynski indicated that Paramount was aware of his concept as early as 1989, when he attempted to sell the show to the studio, and provided them with the series bible, pilot script, artwork, lengthy character background histories, and plot synopses for the first 22 episodes. Paramount passed on Babylon 5, but later announced Deep Space Nine was in development after Warner Bros. announced its plans for Babylon 5. Straczynski has stated on numerous occasions that he thinks Paramount may have used his bible and scripts as the basis for DS9's first season.

And I think the same CGI-guys who made the shadows made 8472 too.

posted on November 19th, 2010, 8:42 pm

Last edited by Tyler on November 19th, 2010, 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Just thinking something doesn't make it so, since it's really just speculation and assumptions. If season 1 was before DS9 got good, is it really a good idea to claim they stole the scripts?

quaddmgtech

927 posts

posted on November 19th, 2010, 9:00 pm

In the words of Sheldon from the Big Bang Theory. "Babylon 5 fails as both drama and science fiction."

Abraxas

40 posts

posted on November 19th, 2010, 10:29 pm

Last edited by Abraxas on November 19th, 2010, 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I know I'm going against everything this thread was originally about... and probably well on my way to making a bad first impression... but here I go.

The Undying Nephalim wrote:- Both feature a station

So?

TOS and "Lost in Space" both feature a ship, yet it's no more plausible that the former is a rip-off of the latter then B5 is a rip-off of DS9. The role each station plays in their respective stories, as well as their appearance, background, story arc and fate are so wildly different, it's difficult to assert any similarity between the two except that they are both space stations.

The Undying Nephalim wrote:- Whitestar/ Defiant

Their total lack of a physical resemblance notwithstanding...

One ship was designed and built in secret by 2/3 of an advanced race and the help of an ancient alien race to fight a coming darkness that shows up every 1,000 years to promote the evolution of the galaxy by sewing conflict in an effort to prove any other means of development are inferior - namely the method of constant observation and subtle manipulation practiced by the ancient alien race mentioned at the beginning.

The other ship was designed and commissioned by a confederation of dozens of alien races after a quirky, god-like entity bitterly whisked them across the galaxy in an effort to humble the seemingly overconfident organization that would not admit it wasn't ready to face the unknown threats that await them in the dark, uncharted and insofar unreachable corners of the galaxy.

The only similarity they have is that they're small, agile craft that figure prominently in their respective television shows... much like Talyn in "Farscape," but no one bitches about intellectual property rights there.

The Undying Nephalim wrote:- Hyperspace Gate, Wormhole

Hyperspace gates are constructed in place to aid ships entering or exiting hyperspace (the FTL mode of travel used in the B5 universe) because they are either too small to carry their own jump engine or because larger ships (which can open jump points anywhere they desire on their own) choose not to expend the energy necessary to open their own jump point.

The (stable) wormhole is a rare and valuable anomaly that allows ships to move vast distances in much less time then standard warp engines can allow.

In one universe, the hyperspace gate is the conventional means of traversing interstellar distances within a reasonable amount of time (a common mechanic in science fiction) while in the other universe, the wormhole is the exception to the conventional means of traversing interstellar distances within a reasonable amount of time.

Yes, they kinda open and close the same way… but how is it any different then any other portal in any other show? Remember "Mighty Max"?

The Undying Nephalim wrote:- Vorlon Bioships, Species 8472 Bioships (ok that's technically voyager, but they look the same!)

And yet the pilot episode of B5, featuring Ambassador Kosh’s transport, was broadcast in 1994 and the Voyager episode "Scorpion" was broadcast in 1997. So who ripped off whom, exactly?

The Undying Nephalim wrote:- Sinclar's baseball memorabilia/ Sisko's love for baseball

As I recall, Sinclair (and other B5 characters) played baseball from time to time, but that was generally relegated to a few scenes in a batting cage. I don’t think any character in B5 had any prominent baseball memorabilia. That was truly Sisko’s "bag," and no one infringed on that.

Both shows used references from 20th century culture to invoke a connection between the audience and the characters. This is why Garibaldi in B5 had a devout affection for Daffy Duck and Riker played the trombone in Star Trek. The fact that both shows would pick something as universal as the "American pastime" isn’t coincidence. It’s more cliché, then anything else.

The Undying Nephalim wrote:- Gaim/ Breen

Yes, they both need an encounter suit because neither breathes oxygen…

… but the similarities end there. One’s a big cockroach and the other has never even been seen without a helmet, as far as I know. If anything, the Breen look suspiciously like whatever race Leia was trying to imitate when she tried infiltrating Jabba the Hutt’s palace in "Return of the Jedi".

The Undying Nephalim wrote:- Raiders/ Maquis

Raiders are space pirates – a wholly unsurprising group of people that may very well develop in the future.

The Maquis were Federation colonists annexed by the Cardassians and largely left to fend for themselves against a government they did not recognize, so some turned violent.

Both groups have wildly different motivations for their behavior and aren’t similar in the least.

The Undying Nephalim wrote:- Dukhat/ Dukat...

You couldn’t pick two more divergent characters if you tried. One’s a wise religious leader and the other is a blatant villain.

Now, it’s possible that JMS used the name as some kind of slight against DS9 (because Dukat’s introduction was broadcast before Dukhat’s – there’s a mindbender for you :pinch:

), but since the characters are so different (yet respectable, in their own rights), it seems unlikely for this to be the case.

If JMS gave the name to some Minbari ass hole, you might have a case, but instead the name was given to one of the most important, influential and respected individuals in all of Minbari culture. Meanwhile, the Cardassian Dukat basically got tossed into hell for being so damn evil.

This may truly have been a coincidence, because it doesn’t make sense to glorify a character’s name from a competing television show.

The Undying Nephalim wrote:And that's only what I've noticed in the first few episodes.

With all due respect, you either know very little about Babylon 5 or you know very little about Star Trek: DS9, because the "eerie" similarities and "funny" coincidences you claim to see are based on an extremely poor understanding of the reference material.

I’m not here to say I like one or the other, because like I said above, I like both and regret that neither show is on television anymore. I admit I’m more familiar with Babylon 5 then DS9, but that’s because I don’t have access to the complete DS9 series like I do with Babylon 5. I like both shows and would watch both if they were on TV and I would enjoy them, so please don’t take my replies the wrong way.

I just think you’re being glib in your analysis of how supposedly similar the two shows are.

Tyler wrote:Coincidences can certainly be astounding things.

And when you find them, please inform me so that we may discuss them.

quaddmgtech wrote:In the words of Sheldon from the Big Bang Theory. "Babylon 5 fails as both drama and science fiction."

Care to explain why? And don’t quote Sheldon again. I saw the episode and was equally unimpressed by his lack of arguments, but in the interest of “comedy,” I suppose a well argued discussion about his issues wouldn’t elicit many laughs.

Myles

Donator

9495 posts

posted on November 19th, 2010, 10:37 pm

that wall of text makes my eyes bleed.

if you're gonna edit such large essays it would be nice if you could tell us what you edited lol. im trying to find out if u added any new arguments/content to your thesis.

oh and welcome to the forums :thumbsup: