Borg Origins

posted on September 18th, 2006, 12:51 pm

[font=Optima]Hey everyone, it's been a long time. This is BlackFalcon. I had my name changed. I am still working on the story combining the Star Trek and Star Wars worlds from a while back. however the tedious issues of life have made the story take longer than I anticipated. I only have 7 chapters finished so far, but even those, are looking like they may be rewritten.

But for now, I have a question for you all that I thought might be interesting to hear different opinions on. The question was raised from my roommate, and after he had asked, I was dieing to know myself.

Where do the Borg come from? How did they come to be driven by the one will of aspiring perfection? What is the Queen's role in leading the Borg? If we've seen her die on so many occasions, why do we KEEP seeing her, and is she supposed to be the same Queen throughout the different performances portrayed by different actresses?

Now I've heard of a comic that was released describing exactly what I'm asking about, detailing that the Borg started off as a race that was diseased, and that disease forced them to either go on living the rest of their lives with it, or adapt to it. But if this is true, then what were they like BEFORE the disease struck? Exactly what effect did the disease have on them, forcing them to become what we know them as now? How did they become to be the disaster that we know them as now, if not from the disease? Were they always a unified mind? Were they always dependent on cybernetics and assimilation to survive?

Please post your opinions. Myself and others are eager to hear from different points of view on this subject. There is no right or wrong answer here in my opinion, unless it were to come directly from the writers and developers of Star Trek itself. But since they're not here, let's be creative and see if we can put it together based on OUR unified knowledge. [/font]

posted on September 18th, 2006, 1:04 pm

my opinion is, that the queens are as different as the borg cube vessels. identical in appearance butnot the same unit. however i think that the conscieness of the queen IS in fact the same otherwise she wouldn't keep referring to herself as "I".
When the queen is destroyed the borg probably just rebuild another body, and transfer her thoughts/mind back to her. after all remember Seven talking about her inevitable death, she says that in the collective she would have lived on through her own voice, but as an individual she would just fade to a dim memory (yeah i know some poetic lisencing there, sue me ....).

maybe it was a machine/computer which came up with the unattainable "perfection" objective. afterall who among you is naive enough to think perfection is even attainable? perhaps in the beginning it was simply computer programming that controlled drones and then evolved into a shared mind.

posted on September 18th, 2006, 1:13 pm

About the borg origin your guess is as good as mine. However about how come the queen wont die, its simple really. She explains it perfectly in First Contact.
I think the dialog goes something like this:

Picard: "But you were destroyed on that cube, along with the rest of the Borg."
Queen: "You think in such THREE DIMENSIONAL WAY, how small have you become?!"

Now the 4th dimension is time, so I think she simply used timetravel to save her arse.

posted on September 18th, 2006, 3:49 pm

Very interesting aspect of StarTrek. I like discussing that matter. I'd more like to write in german cos thats much simpler for me to express. So be patient if you maybe don't understand what I mean.

Where do the Borg come from?

It's a secret. there are too less information about the Borg. They don't talk that much u know
They once were like us I guess. I also heard of what Ryan said.

How did they come to be driven by the one will of aspiring perfection?

Borg are assimilating other species to reach perfection. It's the pure evolution. Getting perfect like nature does. It's just the way to increase the time passing by...a controlled evolution on warp 10 if you want. But the philosophic aspect is much deeper I think. Look at Species 8472. They are more perfect than Borg. The weak will die. Evolution again. It has much to do with things happening in our real life. You have to search for paralleles in our world to know what Roddenberry meant with his stories. Maybe that's the way to find out where Borg came from!


What is the Queen's role in leading the Borg?

She doesn't lead the Borg.
She is the one, the collective as it is. Brought together into one body to communicate with beeings like us. Brings the question why she wanted Picard beside her....
Without a all overwhelming connection of all Borg there is no collective. So there is no Queen. Otherwise if the Borg Queen dies the collective dies because she is the collective.
There is no order. The one that is many. Sorry but I just know the dubbed german version of StarTrek. The collective is a self organising organsim ordered by the instinct, behavior, ... of all so far assimilated races. The one organism "collective" becomes imperfect...they are simply not linked with each other. it's broken. Ever played Armada 2 Borg missions? There you can see what i mean.




If we've seen her die on so many occasions, why do we KEEP seeing her, and is she supposed to be the same Queen throughout the different performances portrayed by different actresses?

It's not just the 4th dimension. It includes 4th dimension, thats true. But there are more than just the 4th. It goes behond time and space.
There are countless systems of the Borg and all characteristics are also saved there of all beeings as they exists anywhere. The bodies of Borg are nothing more than tools. That's why you can't kill the Borg by killing one Drone. But it's a link into the collective. It's hard to explain that in english.

Hope I could give you the right answers.

posted on September 18th, 2006, 5:23 pm

hmm though topic AND i'm going to spoil it

The Borg Queen; yeah the Borg Queen was invented to present the cinema audience with an physical enemy rather then several voices overlapped and distorted by some Yamaha synthesizer; (When I watch an movie made in Hollywood, i expect the following thing: the filmstudio thinks that their audience is retarded )

So the Borg Queen in my eyes is a construction created by the moviemakers to make the film mor tense, since otherwise data's "struggle" with "evil" would be half so funny to watch (i just say: dialoge before the sex-scene)

So hmm you could ask some hardcore trekkie-fans if they can live with you AND your story IF you would decide to drop the Borg Queen as "non-canon"

i recommend you to read the articel about the borg at memory alpha; i -in parts- share his opinion;

So now you can HATE me if you like

posted on September 18th, 2006, 5:27 pm

heh i would also like to point out, we have cloning tech in this day and age, the dominion have it, the roms have it, whos to say none of our reserach or anyother race or even a borg invention has not cloned her, as you all said a borg can not die but can be transported into a nother bein or 3.5" floppy.

posted on September 18th, 2006, 7:47 pm

well, this is actually explained some truought the episodes, in Voyager it is stated that they had been a small race of beings that wanted to better themselves using cybernetic implants, eventually taking over other species and adding them into the collective, in Enterprise it's explained when they came from their homeland in the delta quadrant to our little quorner of the galaxy, when they find remains of a sphere on earth.

posted on September 18th, 2006, 11:00 pm

well, this is actually explained some truought the episodes, in Voyager it is stated that they had been a small race of beings that wanted to better themselves using cybernetic implants, eventually taking over other species and adding them into the collective, in Enterprise it's explained when they came from their homeland in the delta quadrant to our little quorner of the galaxy, when they find remains of a sphere on earth.

As some of that came from Akiraprise it shall be disregarded , sorry but that series had a habit of rewriting history as it saw fit

posted on September 18th, 2006, 11:06 pm

[font=Optima]Yes but that's a time loophole right there. That sphere that they found on Earth in the seriers Enterprise, is the Borg sphere that was destroyed in the movie First Contact by Picard's Enterprise-E. Technically, it is still from the future.

Now that also puts some controversy in this, because with that episode from the Enterprise series, it shows that the Borg transmitted a message to the Delta Quadrant after Archer destroyed their ship, paving the way for the war with the Borg in the 24th century.

HOWEVER, it was Q in the first place who introduced us to the Borg. If it weren't for him, we probably wouldn't have met them until possibly, when Voyager was thrown to the Delta Quadrant, since that's their native land.

And you say that the Borg Queen IS the collective, and that if we destroy her, we destroy The Collective, but how many times now have we seen her die? Gosh, I can't keep count. It wasn't until the last episode of Voyager, that we finally dealt a smashing blow to them, seeing the Borg Queen fall apart at the limbs, the Unicomplex exploding, and Voyager destroying 1 out of 6 transwarp hubs in the galaxy. I'd say that dealt the biggest blow yet.[/font]

posted on September 18th, 2006, 11:33 pm

*bangs head off desk* i know that i read a book somewere a realy realy good one that talked about it, but i cant remmeber now?! i keep thinking the 3 shatner books but i that was more mirror i think, been to long.

posted on September 19th, 2006, 12:07 am

it's basically a pre-destination paradox.
The borg invade earth, becuse the borg from the future, now in the past warn them about it.

posted on September 19th, 2006, 12:13 am

As the Queen died in First Contact all Drones went mad. That's what I mean when the collective dies. In that time there was no collective in a distance to be part of it. That's why they tried to contact themselves. So there have been 2 collectives. One from the future and very small. The other one far away and atm assimilating other species.

the point of 3.5" floppy. Ever seen her skull ? it is 3.5" floppy

posted on September 20th, 2006, 2:14 am

well it is now seeing as Ent did it

Notice how practically every ST series has borg even ds9 has the appearance in the fist ep

posted on September 20th, 2006, 2:19 am

lol they were the new klingon.
DITL has some good articals on the BORG, and i think Q Who gives some good hints.

[Silver Gryphon]

posted on October 29th, 2006, 8:23 pm

Last edited by Silver Gryphon on October 29th, 2006, 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I tend to theorize that the borg were a technological society gone bad. My guess is that they originate in another galaxy so far away its hundreds of years away at transwarp. The borg in our galaxy are just 'colonists' if you will. A single branch of the collective. One of many.... At leats thats the latest hypothosis here at...., well I can't tell you where I work in Starfleet or I'd have to kill you.