Ambassador Class vs Venture Refit

posted on December 5th, 2010, 7:26 am

As i was playing i noticed the VENTURE CLASS, doesnt seem to have the shielding, as the AMBASSADOR CLASS, OR AM I MISTAKEN?

posted on December 5th, 2010, 9:08 am

A topic with all caps in the title.

Aaaaaaand I guessed right.

  Funny thing is: you always capitalize the weirdest things, yet you don't have any caps in your own name.


 

posted on December 5th, 2010, 9:11 am

I understand you completely, NavyGuy!

When I get warp ins, getting a Galaxy is ok, but getting an Ambassador class is GREAT! (<---this is when you caps. )

That is, unless I'm facing charghs.  Then my Ambassadors cry.

posted on December 5th, 2010, 9:18 am

It's cause things are balanced for rock paper scissors MP Spam rather than to make trek sense.

Look at the Neghvar being short ranged as another example....

posted on December 5th, 2010, 9:26 am

Exactly, Tok'ra!!!

And why on Earth doesn't the Sovereign do multi targeting like it did in Nemesis?  Or why doesn't the Akira fire 90 torpedoes in one minute if it has 15 launchers like the designer says it does?  I completely agree with you:  We should scrap all this MP spam nonsense and make Star Trek more like a cannon.

posted on December 5th, 2010, 9:26 am

Uff ... really?  

  REALLY?

 No ... really?


 That's why they made double-stuffed Oreo's, Tokra!  So that you don't have to bother with too much cookie when all you really want is the yummy cream filling!  :woot:   Who needs balance in a game when Star Trek clearly shows us that Feds always win!!!!


  Ninja'd by Mal the Ninja.

posted on December 5th, 2010, 9:41 am

Star Trek clearly shows us that Feds always win!!!!

No no, the rule clearly states that the Feds only win when they're not facing the Klingons...every time they go to war with the Klingons they get their deflector dishes soundly whooped.

Thinking about it, the Klingons seem to be pretty successful when they're not allied with the Feds...

posted on December 5th, 2010, 10:26 am

yeah navy, lay off the caps lock, we'll still read your points even without caps. we promise

and tokra if u look into a lot of the balance it does make some sense. not that everything should follow canon, but some does.

the ambas for example is fast and manoeuvrable, as it was shown to be in yesterday's enterprise

the galaxy shown to be good at attacking at long range was demonstrated when riker was helping the klingon ship attack the enterprise. he said close in to shorter range, rather than engage at long range where the enterprise is good.

we only ever saw the neggie in combat a couple times. one of those was the regent's ship which is in another universe lol. we saw the neggie attacking ds9 and doing rather well, so the high ranked neggies perform well against stations.

posted on December 5th, 2010, 12:48 pm

No no, the rule clearly states that the Feds only win when they're not facing the Klingons...every time they go to war with the Klingons they get their deflector dishes soundly whooped.

Thinking about it, the Klingons seem to be pretty successful when they're not allied with the Feds...

Yeah, because their attack on DS9 went so well and they conquered the Federation so easily back in TOS...

posted on December 5th, 2010, 1:14 pm

they werent prepared for ds9, they were expecting something weaker and had just dont an invasion of cardassia. they had almost won at the end when gowron stopped, cos he's a sissy girl. only 6 starfleet ships were incoming, and gowron had loads of klingon ships left and ds9 had already lost shields once. if he had more testicular fortitude he could have destroyed ds9.

in tos they never went to war properly i dont think, the organians stopped them with their q super powers. if they had gone to war then i bet the klingons would have won.

[Tyler]

posted on December 5th, 2010, 1:18 pm

Last edited by Tyler on December 5th, 2010, 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

They attacked the Station, they failed. They were stupid enough to rush in blindly, which isn't an excuse for losing. They were weak cowards in TOS, before the Organians.

DS9-era, Starfleet was better at fighting according to the Martok Founders claim that Starfleet would drive them out shortly after getting their act together. With Klingon losses increasing over time.

Klingons are more willing to die, which doesn't make you a better fighter. Hand to hand is the only time they could win, which is meaningless in average space battles.

posted on December 5th, 2010, 1:54 pm

They attacked the Station, they failed. They were stupid enough to rush in blindly, which isn't an excuse for losing. They were weak cowards in TOS, before the Organians.

it isnt an excuse for losing, its the reason they lost. if they had come prepared and with a plan, they would have succeeded

cowardly or not, they put a large amount of their resources into fighting, while the federation doesnt. they could have won if the organians had let them fight.

DS9-era, Starfleet was better at fighting according to the Martok Founders claim that Starfleet would drive them out shortly after getting their act together. With Klingon losses increasing over time.

well ds9 isnt exactly on the klingon doorstep, holding a station away from your own territory would be easy for no armed forces, they didnt really want to capture ds9 anyway, they wanted to kill the cardassian leaders, destroying the station does that. they also wanted some fighting action, destroying the station does that too. instead of beaming aboard soliders they should have beamed over torpedoes boom

Klingons are more willing to die, which doesn't make you a better fighter. Hand to hand is the only time they could win, which is meaningless in average space battles.

even hand to hand they got their arses kicked, but there is no argument that every time they have had a serious war with the feds in a similar timeline, they have done well.

examples:

[+] yesterday's enterprise, was identical to normal until ent C incident. the klingons were winning.

[+] all good things, they klingons managed to satisfy their war desire by whacking the romulans. they could probably have done quite well against the feds, as the romulans didnt wanna risk a war with the feds, indicating the romulans and feds were on similar terms and a war would be a close run contest.

[+] episode with old jake called "the visitor", this timeline split in the middle of ds9 when ben sisko got sucked into subspace. bajor was butthurt that their emissary had left them so they decided to make a defence pact with the cardies (which was stupid, they dont like cardies) the klingon's lust for war escalated and they ended up taking control of the bajor system and keeping the dominion from invading. starfleet just let them have the station lol. the klingon desire for battle was probably satisfied by completing their invasion of cardassia

the klingons are stupid, but because they put so much of their empire's resources into being a warrior race, they are effective at fighting and would almost certainly beat the feds in a war before the dominion war. the klingon losses were said to be the harshest in the dominion war, leaving their fighting ability in question.

[Tyler]

posted on December 5th, 2010, 2:06 pm

Last edited by Tyler on December 5th, 2010, 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

it isnt an excuse for losing, its the reason they lost. if they had come prepared and with a plan, they would have succeeded

They were prepared; they had an entire fleet of the better ship (and K't'inga Class) with marines. They ignored warnings and even the weapons they detected.

cowardly or not, they put a large amount of their resources into fighting, while the federation doesnt. they could have won if the organians had let them fight.

Those Klingons were just Romulans with less guts, they were sneaky and underhanded. Full focus on straight war is highly unlikely, more unlikely than the oddly militant Starfleet of the era.

well ds9 isnt exactly on the klingon doorstep, holding a station away from your own territory would be easy for no armed forces, they didnt really want to capture ds9 anyway, they wanted to kill the cardassian leaders, destroying the station does that. they also wanted some fighting action, destroying the station does that too. instead of beaming aboard soliders they should have beamed over torpedoes boom

even hand to hand they got their arses kicked, but there is no argument that every time they have had a serious war with the feds in a similar timeline, they have done well.

The fact that they even tried to capture the station instead of destroy it shows they're not cut out for war, no matter how much they go on about it. Hand to hand loss was plot armor, which the Klingons don't have.

[+] yesterday's enterprise, was identical to normal until ent C incident. the klingons were winning.

[+] all good things, they klingons managed to satisfy their war desire by whacking the romulans. they could probably have done quite well against the feds, as the romulans didnt wanna risk a war with the feds, indicating the romulans and feds were on similar terms and a war would be a close run contest.

[+] episode with old jake called "the visitor", this timeline split in the middle of ds9 when ben sisko got sucked into subspace. bajor was butthurt that their emissary had left them so they decided to make a defence pact with the cardies (which was stupid, they dont like cardies) the klingon's lust for war escalated and they ended up taking control of the bajor system and keeping the dominion from invading. starfleet just let them have the station lol. the klingon desire for battle was probably satisfied by completing their invasion of cardassia

Yesterday's Enterprise would have been after the Praxis incident, where Starfleet would have been slightly disarmed due to the peace and not expecting an attack. Surprise can easily kill a stronger enemy.

The Romulans weren't that strong, the D'deridex was only good for looking deadly. It wasn't until the Valdore Class that they got a real warship.

Starfleet often preferred to keep others happy without fighting. It's in their nature.


I'm not saying the Klingons are weak, just overrated in battle. Starfleet is better at fighting than they are.

posted on December 5th, 2010, 2:37 pm

They were prepared; they had an entire fleet of the better ship (and K't'inga Class) with marines. They ignored warnings and even the weapons they detected.

no they werent, they didnt have their whole fleet, only some of the fleet chased from cardassian space. they couldnt mobilise their entire invasion fleet that fast to chase the defiant. if they had waited they would have had larger numbers. also they believed the weapons were fakes, not real. example of their stupidity.

Those Klingons were just Romulans with less guts, they were far sneaky and underhanded. Full focus on straight war is highly unlikely, more unlikely than the oddly militant Starfleet of the era.

i think that was because the klingons were poorly portrayed in tos.

i prefer to believe that the tos klingons were just tmp/tng klingons but not shown properly.

enterprise went with the klingons from tmp/tng too. sadly tos was made so long ago.

regardless, the klingons have an empire, and they likely spend most of their gross imperial product (gdp but for space empires ) on military things. like researching new gunz, and building loads of well armed ships.

The fact that they even tried to capture the station instead of destroy it shows they're not cut out for war, no matter how much they go on about it. Hand to hand loss was plot armor, which the Klingons don't have.

i think the fact that they boarded the station was stupid, and just for the audience. if they properly had a war, they would destroy the feds.

i forgot to mention how they were waging a mini war with the feds before the dominion war and were actually doing rather well. it never seemed like the klingons were putting their all into it, but they were still taking planet after planet from starfleet. losses on the federation side were dozens of ships, which isnt really much compared to hundreds in the dominion war. so its most likely that this mini war was exactly that, the klingons weren't really trying to invade properly. the martok changeling's comments that the federation could fight back against this invasion actually supports my claim that this mini invasion wasnt using a lot of ships. if both sides had committed their whole fleets like the dominion wanted, then they would have both been weakened a lot, which couldnt happen as the dominion war had to happen lol.

Yesterday's Enterprise would have been after the Praxis incident, where Starfleet would have been slightly disarmed due to the peace and not expecting an attack. Surprise can easily kill a stronger enemy.

as you say, just after praxis, they lost a lot in that incident and still had enough strength to win against the feds.

i disagree that surprise would win here. surprise would help you take a small area. but starships can be mobilised fast. it wouldnt take long for all of starfleet to respond and rally together. the surprise would wear off after the first couple planets fell.

The Romulans weren't that strong, the D'deridex was only good for looking deadly. It wasn't until the Valdore Class that they got a real warship.

the romulans are strong, they are a military empire, and prone to paranoia, they probably spend a large amount of their resources on military efforts. the d'deridex was rarely seen in combat so we have no idea whether it was powerful or not. it is bigger than a galaxy class, and probably at least as powerful. we never saw a direct conflict between the feds and romulans, but the fact that the romulans avoided war with the feds indicates that they are of roughly similar strength (rom and fed) then the klingons defeated the romulans and in all good things their victory wasnt said to be pyrrhic.

Starfleet often preferred to keep others happy without fighting. It's in their nature.

the federation may have its leader's office in paris, but they arent french, they wouldnt surrender so cowardly. actually in this case they may have sacrificed ds9 if bajor didnt care any more.

I'm not saying the Klingons are weak, just overrated in battle. Starfleet is better at fighting than they are.

starfleet always wins in trek because they have to, or all the main characters die and the show ends lol. thats why all the death for the federation happens in alternate timelines. if u take away all their plot armour, the federation is a peaceful entity that cant spend a large proportion of their resources on building gunz. and i really think that military empires would beat them in a real war.

starfleet isnt weak either, but they are just not warmongers. its not their game.

walls of text

[RedEyedRaven]

posted on December 5th, 2010, 2:52 pm

Last edited by RedEyedRaven on December 5th, 2010, 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

also they believed the weapons were fakes, not real

Only until the Negh'Var scanned the station. The klingons knew exactly what they were up against.