The Romulans may have got the right idea with insterstellar

posted on December 3rd, 2009, 11:33 pm

Dark power: Grand designs for interstellar travel - space - 25 November 2009 - New Scientist

It's long but worth the read. Free hug to anyone who understands the reference. By the way, any physicists/other scientists who find this as amazing as I? Not just the possiblities, but the implacations. Would be nice to have a good discussion on this topic

posted on December 3rd, 2009, 11:58 pm

Wishful thinking I'm afraid: your typical interstellar space has about 1 atom per cubic centimeter, and six times that isn't a whole lot more  . To generate a sufficiently large magnetic field to draw in these atoms - assuming of course they interact with magnetic fields in the same manner as normal bosons (which they do not  in the strictest sense - no interaction that we can observe thus far afterall) would require a significant energy source that could not be sustained I think by such small scale operations.

In regard to the blackhole idea... that just seems absurd in a number of respects I think  . It would have to be pretty damn far from the spacecraft (even if you hope that the gamma rays don't kill you), and relying on Hawkings Radiation for propulsion of course implies that the blackhole won't evaporate faster than your total flight length - otherwise you'll be stuck at the velocity you gained pretty much. Popular Mechanics ideas I think 

posted on December 4th, 2009, 12:30 am

Obviously you are more well versed in these matters than me, a poor humble university applicant.

I didn't think much for the dark matter either, but the black hole idea seemed at least plausible to me in the far future.

posted on December 4th, 2009, 12:44 am

I don't know about that 

Well, maybe when we have the uber tech to deal with the problems - but it sounds much more reasonable to me to not go for such "small ventures". If you want out of the Solar System, best do it laaaarge. Ever read Rendezvous with Rama? (talking really big and extremely capable vessels built for the long haul) Basically build an enormous vessel, and who cares how long it takes you. Heck, fill it with thousands of folks and create a drifting city - harvest your asteroids ad nauseum. Of course, there are all sorts of problems associated with that too...

posted on December 4th, 2009, 12:48 am

Wow, I've read that, but it was so long ago that I don't remember much about it.  Ramas always do things in threes...

posted on December 4th, 2009, 12:52 am

Oh yeah, nothing wrong with huge generational ships. Just would be nice for the pilots to feel like they were doing something useful.

I guess an ion drice with A LOT of fuel and spare time could go quite fast couldn't it?

posted on December 4th, 2009, 12:57 am

Wow, I've read that, but it was so long ago that I don't remember much about it.  Ramas always do things in threes...

Too bad the author died before writing the third installment... the second book ended on a damn cliffhanger afterall! 

Oh yeah, nothing wrong with huge generational ships. Just would be nice for the pilots to feel like they were doing something useful.

I guess an ion drice with A LOT of fuel and spare time could go quite fast couldn't it?

Hehe, maybe the pilots are all AI's and the rest of the crew are all mechanics fixing up dings from micrometeorite impacts 

Well, the problem with the ion drive is the fuel . Enough fuel and the darn ship can't go fast enough... that's what the whole deal was with the blackhole and dark matter ideas - don't carry your own fuel so to speak 

[Anonymous]

posted on December 4th, 2009, 12:58 am

Last edited by Anonymous on December 4th, 2009, 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

In regard to the blackhole idea... that just seems absurd in a number of respects I think  . It would have to be pretty damn far from the spacecraft (even if you hope that the gamma rays don't kill you), and relying on Hawkings Radiation for propulsion of course implies that the blackhole won't evaporate faster than your total flight length - otherwise you'll be stuck at the velocity you gained pretty much. Popular Mechanics ideas I think 

Only a little further than the event horizon surely? It is only 1 million tonnes. Pah, gamma rays, shmamma rays, we will probably find an easy way to block them by the time we can build 250-kilometre solar satellites.
And the articles did say the black holes that size would last 1000 years and if necessary top them up with matter.

posted on December 4th, 2009, 1:20 am

Thick lead and concrete, with a water layer between them is the most effective shielding system we currently have vs Gamma.

posted on December 4th, 2009, 2:55 am

What are we so worried about gamma rays for?   All a massive dose does is turn you into a powerful, green monster whenever you get angry.  I'm failing to see the downside.

posted on December 4th, 2009, 3:55 am

Wishful thinking I'm afraid: your typical interstellar space has about 1 atom per cubic centimeter, and six times that isn't a whole lot more  . To generate a sufficiently large magnetic field to draw in these atoms - assuming of course they interact with magnetic fields in the same manner as normal bosons (which they do not  in the strictest sense - no interaction that we can observe thus far afterall) would require a significant energy source that could not be sustained I think by such small scale operations.

In regard to the blackhole idea... that just seems absurd in a number of respects I think  . It would have to be pretty damn far from the spacecraft (even if you hope that the gamma rays don't kill you), and relying on Hawkings Radiation for propulsion of course implies that the blackhole won't evaporate faster than your total flight length - otherwise you'll be stuck at the velocity you gained pretty much. Popular Mechanics ideas I think 

There's a fundamental flaw in your first argument: they said they theorize Dark Matter outweighs all visible matter in the universe by 6 to 1... not necessarily that it is distributed the same. Interstellar space sure, it's relatively empty. But I think it's safe to assume dark matter doesn't congeal into planetoids. As such, is it not safe to assume it's distribution is a bit different as well? I would estimate that it probably is plentiful enough for our needs... though I still say a good M/AM reactor is the best way to go for power generation.

posted on December 4th, 2009, 4:21 am

Perhaps combine the M/AM idea with the black hole idea.  Use the black hole's EM radiation, snared and aimed, to create an EM sheath to allow storage of the Anti-matter?  If possible, could also use the black hole's ability to violate relativity to find a way into FTL, also.

posted on December 4th, 2009, 4:59 am

There's a fundamental flaw in your first argument: they said they theorize Dark Matter outweighs all visible matter in the universe by 6 to 1... not necessarily that it is distributed the same. Interstellar space sure, it's relatively empty. But I think it's safe to assume dark matter doesn't congeal into planetoids. As such, is it not safe to assume it's distribution is a bit different as well? I would estimate that it probably is plentiful enough for our needs... though I still say a good M/AM reactor is the best way to go for power generation.

I was under the impression thermodynamics made M/AM reactors worthless for generating power. As i recall one scientist putting it, if every nation in the world pooled its resources, we could only make a handful of the stuff, and it would not return on its investment. The power necessary to create anti-matter is greater than the power generated by a matter anti-matter reaction, making it worthless.

posted on December 4th, 2009, 5:05 am

But we could send an old drunk into space using a hollowed out missile, and there might just be an alien race who happened to be passing by our system, and they would detect the warp signature, and it could start an alliance, and hundreds of years later we could have explorers on some kind of star trek.  Then that scientist that would look like a real asshole.

posted on December 4th, 2009, 5:28 am

If possible, could also use the black hole's ability to violate relativity to find a way into FTL, also.

Space-time only breaks down inside the singularity at the center of the black hole, so FTL by taking advantage of the singularities properties would probably require that the ship be (at least partially) inside the black hole.