The Righteous and Religious Debate

[redmanmark86]

posted on September 29th, 2007, 11:55 pm

Last edited by redmanmark86 on November 3rd, 2007, 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

seemed to fit the bill better...

posted on September 30th, 2007, 1:46 am

Woah dude, I mean come on, like why doesn't anybody like... wasted!

Then again, i mean seriously like, come on! Because why not though come around like? Seriously man, why can't we just sometimes like play together, dig? Flops forever man!

Anyway...

About the urgent tasks thing, I kinda agree. It's a lot like the Christian fundies who preach armageddon so that enough people hear the "good news" (bad news) before the end. They can't keep up with the Earth's rapidly rising population so their mission is useless. Completion to God's satisfaction my foot. God's up there playing card games with the other gods. Laughing His almighty ass off.

posted on September 30th, 2007, 4:34 am

Age old excuse... But at the moment I have no free time except to post
I WILL play though next weekend, cuz that is fall break for me (hence little to no work hopefully). Just have patience please!

posted on October 1st, 2007, 10:11 pm

I may have time @ thursday (the 5th October); on the weekend I will be away @ a privat lan and during the week Supreme Commander stuff keeps me busy mostly

posted on October 9th, 2007, 9:56 pm

About the urgent tasks thing, I kinda agree. It's a lot like the Christian fundies who preach armageddon so that enough people hear the "good news" (bad news) before the end. They can't keep up with the Earth's rapidly rising population so their mission is useless. Completion to God's satisfaction my foot. God's up there playing card games with the other gods. Laughing His almighty ass off.

What the heck? What is this about? Why do we have to go on and on about Christians? Please understand, I am NOT trying to sound like a "jesus freak" or whatever u think I am, but truly, to the heart, why do we have to go on and on dissing Christianity? Do people go around dissing the fact that you don't believe in anything (or whatever you DO believe)? All I ask is that you respect what I believe!

posted on October 10th, 2007, 1:35 am

...but in all fairness, he's just stating his beliefs just as you are (your quotes attached to your persona on Flops and the name you have chosen as well point to this). Freedom of speech and all! I think all it was is an example: Dr. Lazarus could have just as easily said "a doomsayer of another system of beliefs", yet he said what (maybe I am reading too much into this) he knew best at the time. Remember, this is a forum, and although we must be careful in what we state to avoid angry confrontation, there are sometimes slip-ups as well as "miss-interpretations". 

And I think it is safe to say that people do go around dissing what he believes... as we all seem to be making fun of eachother's beliefs as of late. Sorry if I put words in your mouth Doc. 
-dom

[Dr. Lazarus]

posted on October 10th, 2007, 3:24 pm

Last edited by Dr. Lazarus on October 10th, 2007, 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I agree. In reality auxilio, you are "dissing" my "belief", although strictly I have no belief. I have no more belief in a lack of a God than I do in a lack of the flying spaghetti monster. As a matter of fact, I do not respect others "right to believe"; I disrepect it. Religion is by definition devisive, creating an "us and them" mentality in which the us is better than the them. Additionally, I have yet to come across an Abrahamic religion whose holy book does not contain atrocity and incitement to hatred, amongst (many) other things. Do I disrespect all this? Most certainly I do, in fact I despise it. I dislike all badness, and I will never, ever apologise for that, not to anyone and certainly not to you my friend.

As a matter a fact, surprisingly few people "diss" my "belief", and you are one of the first on these forums to do so. Most religious people spend a disproportionate amount of time defending their own belief system rather than attacking my lack of belief (muslims are a notable exception here). They are hell bent on "proving" that God is all wise and all loving, which is utterly absurd considering the cold facts, and frankly it's dangerous. Relgious people do not have a monopoly on morality and most certainly not on the "truth". If you think you can take the high ground with me you're sadly mistaken.

On the subject of high ground behaviour, I find your opening statement perplexing auxilio. You seem thoroughly confused about "what the heck it's about" but then proceed to answer your own question. I make no apology for going off on a tangent and lambasting Christians. I always take every opportunity to do so actually, because there is a just basis for doing so. If you wish to debate the reasons why I do so, I'm ready with gloves on. Your second option is to develop the standard Christian "persecution complex" and start feeling sorry for yourself because I, through the devil's influence, am persecuting you. Or option three, you can take a long, cold look at the facts, at history and at every facet of science you can digest becfore you even attempt to argue this one with me. When you've done all that, give me a call. And then, if my conversation with you results in your realisation that neither God nor Christ care one iota for you or your suffering (and likely don't exist), then we will all be one step closer to a world where we are free of the stifling divisions and hatred caused by religion, as illustrated today.

I repeat that if you wish to discuss all of the finer points about why your position is absurd, and mine is anything but, then I'm ready. Then you can wipe the egg off your face and become a new man (or woman).

posted on October 10th, 2007, 3:39 pm

Oops, I definitely put the wrong words in your mouth 
Just ignore me. Tralallalal

posted on October 10th, 2007, 4:55 pm

Actually your way of putting things is more appealing than mine Dom. My way is designed to send shivers down the recipient's spine, which is not good for upholding relations. 

posted on October 11th, 2007, 10:04 pm

Alright, first, I'd like to say that i REALLY am sorry that I opened this can of worms with u, I really am. I didn't mean for that, but let's get past that. Secondly, in saying that you don't believe in anything, u are making the statement that you believe in nothing. Essentially, your belief exists, no matter WHAT you try to do. Thirdly, I will not call you "controlled by the devil and therefore are persecuting me. I think I'll stop numbering my points now. Anyways, next: i do not disagree with your statement in saying, that religion is devisive, anything that is important as that should be the foremost in your mind. What I WILL say, though, is that Christianity does not adhere to religion, we adhere to Christ. If you do not understand what I mean by this, you have no place in this argument.
Just wondering, do u have any sort of background in religion? or anything? just nice to know.

Next, I'd like to wonder...why this argument has nothing to do with belief, or Christianity, but instead, religion in general?

I was not dissing your "belief" (whether that is a belief or not...), perhaps dissing is the wrong word... attacking...perhaps? If I was attacking your belief, then it would have been totally different, anyways. With your statement, you forced me into defense. So, at this point, it is not ME who is being devisive, but it is YOU.
I agree with your statement of my confusion. I am sorry, but that was intended to be more sarcastic than anything. I should not have posted that, next time, I will try better.

unfortunately, I must leave this computer, if you wish, we can take this to MSN or something other than that, if u wish...email me, u can get my email easily. It has been an interesting post...

posted on October 11th, 2007, 10:38 pm

Alright, first, I'd like to say that i REALLY am sorry that I opened this can of worms with u, I really am. I didn't mean for that, but let's get past that. Secondly, in saying that you don't believe in anything, u are making the statement that you believe in nothing. Essentially, your belief exists, no matter WHAT you try to do. Thirdly, I will not call you "controlled by the devil and therefore are persecuting me. I think I'll stop numbering my points now. Anyways, next: i do not disagree with your statement in saying, that religion is devisive, anything that is important as that should be the foremost in your mind. What I WILL say, though, is that Christianity does not adhere to religion, we adhere to Christ. If you do not understand what I mean by this, you have no place in this argument.
Just wondering, do u have any sort of background in religion? or anything? just nice to know.

Next, I'd like to wonder...why this argument has nothing to do with belief, or Christianity, but instead, religion in general?

I was not dissing your "belief" (whether that is a belief or not...), perhaps dissing is the wrong word... attacking...perhaps? If I was attacking your belief, then it would have been totally different, anyways. With your statement, you forced me into defense. So, at this point, it is not ME who is being devisive, but it is YOU.
I agree with your statement of my confusion. I am sorry, but that was intended to be more sarcastic than anything. I should not have posted that, next time, I will try better.

unfortunately, I must leave this computer, if you wish, we can take this to MSN or something other than that, if u wish...email me, u can get my email easily. It has been an interesting post...

ya I agree if the other people on this topic want to bash some ones religion all they are going to do is bash back or attack. if you hit some one and they hit you back you cant get mad at them you started this all by hitting them or in this case attacking their religion.

[Dr. Lazarus]

posted on October 11th, 2007, 10:57 pm

Last edited by Dr. Lazarus on October 11th, 2007, 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thanks for your honest and thoughtful response auxilio, makes a change from what I usually get, and as you can probably imagine, many do not take well to my abrasive style. However I consider it necessary.

I'm sure you think religion is not devisive, but the real facts show that the opposite is correct. You say that it's non-devisive because really, we should keep what's most important to the forefront, which you intimate as being not a bad thing. I strongly disagree. Many wars have been fought because the combatants stubbornly held onto beliefs that they held to be important. The importance of a belief is subjective, and it is this subjectivity that leads to irreconcilable division. Objectivity leads to peace. So in effect you've proved my point here.

You say Christianity does not adhere to religion. Well, very nice but that depend on how you define religion, and you've provided no definition. However, by most accepted definitions Christianity is a religion, and many denominations fit the definition of a cult down to the finest details. So much depends on definitions. What is most important to me is not words, but meaning. The meaning I emphasised  is division. And following Christ will do that nicely. Did he not say that his followers should be no part of the world? That if we love our family more than him we are not worthy of him? I've seen families torn apart because of stubborn adherence to these, and many other, scriptures.

I guess I've just answered your other question. I most certainly do (did?) have a religious background. I was part of a fundamentalist, literalist Christian religion that made careful interpretation of the scriptures. I made study of doctrine a massive part of my life, all the while ignoring intuitive doubts as well as some specific ones. Finally, I decided to read the bible in detail, and that was more than enough to convince me it was worthless and perhaps even dangerous. I then realised that I knew the bible better than most Christians. Sure enough, it is no coincidence that many atheists/agnostics know the bible better than religious people do.

I agree that I uphold the division by assaulting religion, but think about that. "The division". The division was already there. I'd consider that before you accuse me of abandoning my humanist values. If you take a careful look at history, the division was put there by stubborn religious people, and it is this I fight against. If Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc etc want to stand on the picket lines forming little pockets of human society then I'm hardly going to join any of their little groups. Therefore, the division remains. I'll stay right here until the whole planet Earth is a unified human family. And, despite the claims of my former religion, the way to create this ideal situation is not to massacre 99.9% of the human race.

As a matter of fact, I like to force people into defence because it demonstrates to all how weak their arguments are. There is nothing you can say that I cannot refute. I was a Christian for twenty years and I know the ins and outs of many other religions too. The reason you will never convince me to "see the light" is not because I have a "wicked heart" or any other Christian ideas, neither is it because I am particularly clever; it is because I am armed with the real truth. The real truth is incomplete, and much less cosy than the opium of religion, but it is far more satisfactory. If you'd like my e-mail address or anything else, send me a pm and I'll be happy to discuss anything you'd like.[br]Posted on: October 11, 2007, 11:54:57 pm

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ya I agree if the other people on this topic want to bash some ones religion all they are going to do is bash back or attack. if you hit some one and they hit you back you cant get mad at them you started this all by hitting them or in this case attacking their religion

Ooh Meredith, genius!! How long did it take you to think of that? I'll have to watch out for you in the future Einstein.

Here's my message to all religiously inclined members: feel free to "hit me back". I'll hit back even harder. Every time. 

posted on October 11th, 2007, 10:59 pm

well thanks I guess

posted on October 11th, 2007, 11:04 pm

You're quite welcome 

posted on October 11th, 2007, 11:13 pm

short reply, sry, gotta have supper.

I am not trying to make u see the light, if I was, I would have been going about this TOTALLY differently. As for devisive, u misunderstand, I do not disagree with you, those facts are unresputable.