Gun Debate
posted on April 12th, 2011, 2:35 am
posted on April 12th, 2011, 2:45 am
posted on April 12th, 2011, 3:12 am
posted on April 12th, 2011, 3:22 am
well im in the UK so i personnally dont understand the American need for everyone to own a gun,
dont get me wrong i understand that some people do like farmers because of dangerous animals like bears etc etc
and as for carring them in public there is absolutly no need unless your in law enforcement
oh and im not 100% sure what the laws are in uk but i think we brits can own one if we get a licence/permit but only if there is a legitimate reason for it ,not just 'ive turned 21 its my god given right to own one'....i apologize if that sounded offencive to any americans (not ment too)
oh yes if anyone does know what the law in the UK says on owning a gun please post so i know lol
dont get me wrong i understand that some people do like farmers because of dangerous animals like bears etc etc
and as for carring them in public there is absolutly no need unless your in law enforcement
oh and im not 100% sure what the laws are in uk but i think we brits can own one if we get a licence/permit but only if there is a legitimate reason for it ,not just 'ive turned 21 its my god given right to own one'....i apologize if that sounded offencive to any americans (not ment too)
oh yes if anyone does know what the law in the UK says on owning a gun please post so i know lol
posted on April 12th, 2011, 3:04 pm
posted on April 12th, 2011, 3:16 pm
I used to keep my katana under my pillow, but I sliced my thumb on it that one time. Now I just keep my uzi under there, cocked and loaded of course. Can't let those guys get a second to spare, you know. The Garand with the attached grenade launcher fits nicely in the cubby by the side. I don't know what I'd do without that baby. Of course, I can't put these things in a locked cabinet or anything, otherwise I wouldn't be able to get them in time to blast away the bad guys.
Now if only I could fit my m1 abrams under my bed... then I'd truly feel safe
Now if only I could fit my m1 abrams under my bed... then I'd truly feel safe
posted on April 12th, 2011, 3:25 pm
posted on April 12th, 2011, 3:40 pm
Lol. Dominus, or you for real!? haha. Are you allowed to own that much firepower 
Hehe.
I'd think that mental stability and character would be tested before any permit is given.
So the issue about mental stability and character etc. shouldn't be there, as long as the screening of said individuals is done properly and good enough.
No about the subject of, do I have a problem with people owning and carrying a gun in public.
I think that owning a gun should be permitted with the right reasons. And that it may not be carried in public. These are my main reasons:
Owning a gun:
Permitted if:
Also knowing some self-defence like aikido, judo or grav magga may come in handy some time.
Carrying it in public:
I don't think that is a good idea. Because if one person starts shooting, then all will start shooting in panic and it could very well do more harm then good.
Then you might say, but if everybody carries a gun, one might be discouraged in using it, because he will be shot the instant he pulls it or shoots with it. This may be very true, but the fact is, most people are not trained or do not possess the ability to keep calm and in control in these situations. Most people become frightened and will panic, this is when more harm is done then good with guns.
Also if someone starts threatening you with a gun, there are simple ways to disarm him. Because most people threaten at point blank range, which is within your range of knocking or grabbing the gun away from him. If you do it correctly. You just have to learn how. Which isn't hard to do, actually.
If someone threatens you at a distance, having a gun yourself isn't going to do you any good. The moment you reach for your gun, he shoots and you're dead.
On the streets it is better to know a little self-defense, whether it be judo, taekwondo, aikido or whatever, then it is to carry a gun.
This is my humble opinion on guns.
Hehe.
Does it give the Sheriff any grounds for requesting a denial to someone who meets the criteria if he has reason to believe that there is an issue (from mental stability, character, etc etc) were he can basically ask a judge to review the reasoning he wants the person to be denied the permit ?
I'd think that mental stability and character would be tested before any permit is given.
So the issue about mental stability and character etc. shouldn't be there, as long as the screening of said individuals is done properly and good enough.
No about the subject of, do I have a problem with people owning and carrying a gun in public.
I think that owning a gun should be permitted with the right reasons. And that it may not be carried in public. These are my main reasons:
Owning a gun:
Permitted if:
- You are in some kind of law enforcement off course
- You are in some kind of sport, whether it be a hobby or contesting, which requires the use of a type of gun
- Your neighbourhood isn't safe (anymore) and it's only used as a deterant / last resort to defending your home and property and wife and kids so on and so forth
Also knowing some self-defence like aikido, judo or grav magga may come in handy some time.
Carrying it in public:
I don't think that is a good idea. Because if one person starts shooting, then all will start shooting in panic and it could very well do more harm then good.
Then you might say, but if everybody carries a gun, one might be discouraged in using it, because he will be shot the instant he pulls it or shoots with it. This may be very true, but the fact is, most people are not trained or do not possess the ability to keep calm and in control in these situations. Most people become frightened and will panic, this is when more harm is done then good with guns.
Also if someone starts threatening you with a gun, there are simple ways to disarm him. Because most people threaten at point blank range, which is within your range of knocking or grabbing the gun away from him. If you do it correctly. You just have to learn how. Which isn't hard to do, actually.
If someone threatens you at a distance, having a gun yourself isn't going to do you any good. The moment you reach for your gun, he shoots and you're dead.
On the streets it is better to know a little self-defense, whether it be judo, taekwondo, aikido or whatever, then it is to carry a gun.
This is my humble opinion on guns.
posted on April 12th, 2011, 5:37 pm
posted on April 12th, 2011, 5:43 pm
didnt we do this before?
Star Trek Armada II: Fleet Operations - GUNS!
me neither
not unless they are farming in the middle of a zoo, there are no wild bears left in the uk. farms need guns for things like vermin control.
for firearms that fire bullets (or shells/slugs) a permit is always required. the permit varies per gun type, there are separate licenses for shotguns vs handguns for example. legitmate uses include vermin control for farmers, hunting and sport. home defence is not a valid use. if you want a gun for a use, you must show some obvious things, like not being insane, not having firearms convictions. also the gun must match the use, eg requesting a rifle when you wanna control vermin will probably be rejected unless you have a specific reason. you would probably be required to demonstrate you have measures in place to safeguard the weapons, that will usually mean a lockable container for your guns. a lot of people who fire guns for sport will use guns provided at the gun club, so they will never need to have guns stored in their properties.
im happy with uk gun laws as they are, guns are much harder to come buy here, gang weapons are usually rented from other gangs instead of purchased, which shows just how difficult it is to arrange to shoot someone.
an interesting prospect, much safer, but could still cause a lot of pain and misunderstandings. i'd much rather trained police officers (most officers should receive basic taser training) use these and not the public. i dont really relish the idea of armed public.
thats extremely unlikely, as that is a military weapon, its primary purpose is killing, you couldnt justify it for anything else, those poor deer wouldnt know what hit them if you pulled out a K. its possible you could have it modified to be semi auto only and use only restricted size magazines and claim its for sport, but they'd probably crawl a metre up your ar*e to make sure you dont plan to aim it at people. plus getting a gun from 1 country to another presents a whole new can of problems.
varies. here its very unlikely you would get away with it, since its very unlikely you could legally have the opportunity to do so. if you store a gun with its ammo in an easy to use place then thats illegal. you have to store it securely. and the bad guy with a knife/cricket bat/wet fish is unlikely to give you 15-30 seconds to get your keys and unlock your cabinet get out your hunting rifle go find the ammo, load it, ready the weapon and blow his guts out. maybe if they are armed, and you channel your inner special forces skill (all that time playing video games has to pay off eventually) and disarm the guy without getting killed, then they dont surrender (maybe they pull a knife or something) then you gun them down, it would likely be ok.
the katana is legal in america, the uzi is legal if its modified and not able to fire full auto, and has a smaller magazine capacity (i think america lets you have ten bullets - if u havnt killed them after pulling the trigger ten times, you arent gonna), the m1 garand is legal as well surprisingly, the american military sells them as military surplus. the brits sold our old guns to other countries' reserve militaries. the m7 grenade launcher for the garand isnt legal, no way to justify such explosives.
thats a good point, if you arent trained to use a gun, you will probably get yourself killed if u pull one out. firing a gun safely is a lot more difficult than the often innacurate movies portray, drawing technique, aiming technique, safe usage so you dont blow your finger off, or kill something you didnt want to, all things you cant pick up from silly tv, things that the average person on the street (including myself) have no real need to know. i'd rather stick with my video game guns where you can store 10 of them in your magic bag.
the best way to not get shot in a gun fight, is to not get in a gun fight. swallow your pride, not a bullet.
if you believe any western starring clint eastwood, then thats not true
you might find it funny, but the drug cartels in places like colombia buy their guns from america, america is an exporter of illegal guns. texas is a primary example of this, illegal operations in central and southern america regularly get their guns from texan smuggling groups. not the other way around.
cant you get shotguns too, i know in britain you can.
Star Trek Armada II: Fleet Operations - GUNS!
Facist wrote:well im in the UK so i personnally dont understand the American need for everyone to own a gun,
me neither
Facist wrote:dont get me wrong i understand that some people do like farmers because of dangerous animals like bears etc etc
not unless they are farming in the middle of a zoo, there are no wild bears left in the uk. farms need guns for things like vermin control.
Facist wrote:oh and im not 100% sure what the laws are in uk but i think we brits can own one if we get a licence/permit but only if there is a legitimate reason for it ,not just 'ive turned 21 its my god given right to own one'....i apologize if that sounded offencive to any americans (not ment too)
for firearms that fire bullets (or shells/slugs) a permit is always required. the permit varies per gun type, there are separate licenses for shotguns vs handguns for example. legitmate uses include vermin control for farmers, hunting and sport. home defence is not a valid use. if you want a gun for a use, you must show some obvious things, like not being insane, not having firearms convictions. also the gun must match the use, eg requesting a rifle when you wanna control vermin will probably be rejected unless you have a specific reason. you would probably be required to demonstrate you have measures in place to safeguard the weapons, that will usually mean a lockable container for your guns. a lot of people who fire guns for sport will use guns provided at the gun club, so they will never need to have guns stored in their properties.
Kestrel wrote:I wish Uk allowed guns for home defense
im happy with uk gun laws as they are, guns are much harder to come buy here, gang weapons are usually rented from other gangs instead of purchased, which shows just how difficult it is to arrange to shoot someone.
Kestrel wrote:i like stun guns too wouldnt mind carrying one of those around
an interesting prospect, much safer, but could still cause a lot of pain and misunderstandings. i'd much rather trained police officers (most officers should receive basic taser training) use these and not the public. i dont really relish the idea of armed public.
Kestrel wrote:Would like to bring my AK from russia too.
thats extremely unlikely, as that is a military weapon, its primary purpose is killing, you couldnt justify it for anything else, those poor deer wouldnt know what hit them if you pulled out a K. its possible you could have it modified to be semi auto only and use only restricted size magazines and claim its for sport, but they'd probably crawl a metre up your ar*e to make sure you dont plan to aim it at people. plus getting a gun from 1 country to another presents a whole new can of problems.
Haemoclysm wrote:Also, how does the law handle someone that shoots a criminal dead?
varies. here its very unlikely you would get away with it, since its very unlikely you could legally have the opportunity to do so. if you store a gun with its ammo in an easy to use place then thats illegal. you have to store it securely. and the bad guy with a knife/cricket bat/wet fish is unlikely to give you 15-30 seconds to get your keys and unlock your cabinet get out your hunting rifle go find the ammo, load it, ready the weapon and blow his guts out. maybe if they are armed, and you channel your inner special forces skill (all that time playing video games has to pay off eventually) and disarm the guy without getting killed, then they dont surrender (maybe they pull a knife or something) then you gun them down, it would likely be ok.
Denarius wrote:Lol. Dominus, or you for real!? haha. Are you allowed to own that much firepower
Hehe.
the katana is legal in america, the uzi is legal if its modified and not able to fire full auto, and has a smaller magazine capacity (i think america lets you have ten bullets - if u havnt killed them after pulling the trigger ten times, you arent gonna), the m1 garand is legal as well surprisingly, the american military sells them as military surplus. the brits sold our old guns to other countries' reserve militaries. the m7 grenade launcher for the garand isnt legal, no way to justify such explosives.
Denarius wrote:Most people become frightened and will panic, this is when more harm is done then good with guns.
thats a good point, if you arent trained to use a gun, you will probably get yourself killed if u pull one out. firing a gun safely is a lot more difficult than the often innacurate movies portray, drawing technique, aiming technique, safe usage so you dont blow your finger off, or kill something you didnt want to, all things you cant pick up from silly tv, things that the average person on the street (including myself) have no real need to know. i'd rather stick with my video game guns where you can store 10 of them in your magic bag.
Denarius wrote:Also if someone starts threatening you with a gun, there are simple ways to disarm him. Because most people threaten at point blank range, which is within your range of knocking or grabbing the gun away from him. If you do it correctly. You just have to learn how. Which isn't hard to do, actually.
If someone threatens you at a distance, having a gun yourself isn't going to do you any good. The moment you reach for your gun, he shoots and you're dead.
On the streets it is better to know a little self-defense, whether it be judo, taekwondo, aikido or whatever, then it is to carry a gun.
the best way to not get shot in a gun fight, is to not get in a gun fight. swallow your pride, not a bullet.
Denarius wrote:If someone threatens you at a distance, having a gun yourself isn't going to do you any good. The moment you reach for your gun, he shoots and you're dead.
if you believe any western starring clint eastwood, then thats not true
cabal wrote:It could make it easier for criminals to acquire guns, but the US has very large, poorly guarded borders. It's not exactly difficult for criminals to find smuggled weapons if they're smart enough to actually look.
you might find it funny, but the drug cartels in places like colombia buy their guns from america, america is an exporter of illegal guns. texas is a primary example of this, illegal operations in central and southern america regularly get their guns from texan smuggling groups. not the other way around.
cabal wrote:Also, in most states, owning a firearm is restrcited to hand guns, tazers, and hunting rifles. Automatics are strictly forbidden.
cant you get shotguns too, i know in britain you can.
posted on April 12th, 2011, 6:52 pm
From what i remember the law was changed because i local sheriff decided to deny a carry permit that he had issued for the last several years. He said that he thought the guy was crazy, however it was more like the guy was a pain in his side and he just didn't give him one.
And why do i want to carry a gun well i work late at night by myself at a place that i think could be a target for people to break into. I also feel that if i get put into a life or death situation that its my responsibility to take care of myself. It could take up to 15 mins for the police to show up and by then who know what could happen to me/my family.
The criminals have always be able to get their hands on guns so taking them away from the legitimate populace just makes us more vulnerable.
There are very limited situations when i can shoot someone. If someone breaks into my house and steals something i can not shoot that person. If a person of equal size approaches me and starts beating me up i also can not shoot them. I must meet their force with equal force. That is not to say that if a 300 lb prize fighter starts beating the tar out of me that i cant shoot him. I also must do everything in my power to not shoot them. I am allowed to defend other people as well. Our teacher for the carry class that i took estimated that it would cost you 50,000 dollars of your own money to clear your name and that was assuming that you had a legitimate reason to shoot someone.
I would like to take something like judo however i disagree that its more effective than having a gun. In my mind you can draw it and tell someone to back off and they will likely listen to you. By the time that you get to "show off" your martial arts you will already be commented to the fight. Even if you as a criminal knew how to disarm me you likely would not get a chance because i would not let you get close to me.
You have a point about the confusion that can be caused when people start shooting. It is a very real danger because it happens to undercover cops all the time. They will be shooting at a criminal and the regular cops will show up and shoot the undercover guy. Our class discussed a few ways to help identify your self as the good guy. Like asking after you shoot the bad guy if everyone is alright.
Ok Myles that was before my time
Ok im tired of typing now
And why do i want to carry a gun well i work late at night by myself at a place that i think could be a target for people to break into. I also feel that if i get put into a life or death situation that its my responsibility to take care of myself. It could take up to 15 mins for the police to show up and by then who know what could happen to me/my family.
The criminals have always be able to get their hands on guns so taking them away from the legitimate populace just makes us more vulnerable.
There are very limited situations when i can shoot someone. If someone breaks into my house and steals something i can not shoot that person. If a person of equal size approaches me and starts beating me up i also can not shoot them. I must meet their force with equal force. That is not to say that if a 300 lb prize fighter starts beating the tar out of me that i cant shoot him. I also must do everything in my power to not shoot them. I am allowed to defend other people as well. Our teacher for the carry class that i took estimated that it would cost you 50,000 dollars of your own money to clear your name and that was assuming that you had a legitimate reason to shoot someone.
I would like to take something like judo however i disagree that its more effective than having a gun. In my mind you can draw it and tell someone to back off and they will likely listen to you. By the time that you get to "show off" your martial arts you will already be commented to the fight. Even if you as a criminal knew how to disarm me you likely would not get a chance because i would not let you get close to me.
You have a point about the confusion that can be caused when people start shooting. It is a very real danger because it happens to undercover cops all the time. They will be shooting at a criminal and the regular cops will show up and shoot the undercover guy. Our class discussed a few ways to help identify your self as the good guy. Like asking after you shoot the bad guy if everyone is alright.
Ok Myles that was before my time
Ok im tired of typing now
posted on April 12th, 2011, 6:54 pm
Well, I think it is totally ridiculous how the Government is imposing its views on States' rights for gun laws. CLEARLY the U.S. Constitution gives the States the right to decide about gun laws. I mean those damn pinko comie snivveling whozzuts wouldn't like it if the Government were taking away a region's rights to have gun control laws right? ... oh wait... 
:sorcerer:
Yeah Dircome - right on! And if somebody takes their dog over to my yard and causes it to defecate all over and violate my property, I have the right to defend myself with my legal firearm.
:sorcerer:Yeah Dircome - right on! And if somebody takes their dog over to my yard and causes it to defecate all over and violate my property, I have the right to defend myself with my legal firearm.
posted on April 12th, 2011, 7:32 pm
Last edited by Anonymous on April 12th, 2011, 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dominus_Noctis wrote:Well, I think it is totally ridiculous how the Government is imposing its views on States' rights for gun laws. CLEARLY the U.S. Constitution gives the States the right to decide about gun laws. I mean those damn pinko comie snivveling whozzuts wouldn't like it if the Government were taking away a region's rights to have gun control laws right? ... oh wait...
Yeah Dircome - right on! And if somebody takes their dog over to my yard and causes it to defecate all over and violate my property, I have the right to defend myself with my legal firearm.
I really can't tell if you agree with him or just being compleyely sarcastic because, in that case, he clearly said he would not be able to defend himself. Basically, as Dircome said, you can't shoot someone if they beat you with a stick, however, you have every right to beat them with a stick right back.
In the same way, don't shoot the guy if his dog poops in your yard, simply return the favor in kind. Let your dog poop in his yard.
If you don't have one...you can be creative. If you live on a main street like mine, where many peoples take walks with their dogs, and don't mind to let them have at it around the mail box, simply pull out that airsoft sniper you have in your closet, and... Well, you get the picture. An airsoft rifle can be a simple way of avoiding the rtrouble of a lawsuit, while still getting your point across.
Can't kill an animal like a bb gun can, but you can find ones that leave red paint, or even a full auto machine gun. Some of which the police use for croud control. :2guns: With an airsoft gun, you can pretend you are shooting them with a real gun, and even make them believe it is a real gun, without actually having to worry about the consequences of actually shooting someone.Personally, I own a real shotgun for home defense, a .22 just because it is fun for target practice, a paintball gun, and many airsoft guns. The paintball gun would be too combersome to use in a dire situation, however the airsoft guns, if powerful enough, might be enough to deter an unarmed home invader. Now, if he pulled a gone on me, I wouldn't think twice about popping him with my shotgun, but other than that, an airsoft gun works because it will cause pain, it can be fully automatic, and will cause atleast temporary fear, but they can't sue you for wounding them because all evidence would be gone by the time we went to court!
The welts don't last that long, but they make a nice THWAP! when they hit a coat. 
Oh, and did I mention you can concele carry an airsoft gun without a permit? Obviously, you wouldn't want to pull it out in public, but if you stuck to the clear, and high powered ones, you could definitely get a guy to drop a knife or run away(well...maybe only after you popped him in the leg once or twice
) and the police couldn't arrest you because it is private property that doesn't count as a fire arm.Anyway, I would have to agree with Dircome on this one.
posted on April 12th, 2011, 7:38 pm
posted on April 12th, 2011, 7:43 pm
Last edited by Anonymous on April 12th, 2011, 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sure, but if I shoot him before he has a chance to knife me, why would I have to turn the other cheek?
And becides, if he knives me on one cheek, why would I want the same scar on the other? We are not all as OCD as you are Dom.
and btw, there is no scuch thing as a "Good Christian." There are good people, as I"m sure you are, and there are bad people like Mal, but a Christian can be either. No matter what kind of person he is, he is still considered a Christian.
//Edit, and what part of sniper do you not understand??!? ??? You can't call PETA on me if you don't know why your dog jumped 3 feet in the air when he lifted his leg to pee!! Besides, I've seen people do much more cruel things than that to animals, like putting them in those evil training choker leashes, or in cages that are only twice their size, or even letting them eat food off the table!! I should report these people...
//Edit2, and who said I would shoot the poor dog? You don't have to shoot the dog to get their owners to move to the next house. And just for the record, I do not advocate the shooting of any animal, with a real or fake gun...unless it because I"m hungry and they happen to be something that I would eat. >:(
And becides, if he knives me on one cheek, why would I want the same scar on the other? We are not all as OCD as you are Dom.
and btw, there is no scuch thing as a "Good Christian." There are good people, as I"m sure you are, and there are bad people like Mal, but a Christian can be either. No matter what kind of person he is, he is still considered a Christian.
//Edit, and what part of sniper do you not understand??!? ??? You can't call PETA on me if you don't know why your dog jumped 3 feet in the air when he lifted his leg to pee!! Besides, I've seen people do much more cruel things than that to animals, like putting them in those evil training choker leashes, or in cages that are only twice their size, or even letting them eat food off the table!! I should report these people...
//Edit2, and who said I would shoot the poor dog? You don't have to shoot the dog to get their owners to move to the next house. And just for the record, I do not advocate the shooting of any animal, with a real or fake gun...unless it because I"m hungry and they happen to be something that I would eat. >:(
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