GUN banned no more.

posted on July 10th, 2008, 3:15 am

Well if I dont like narcodics dose not meen that it should be okfor every one alsse to have them.

What you are saying dose not speak to the point I was trying to make.

posted on July 10th, 2008, 11:13 am

I absolutely LOVE narcotics! I also absolutely respect and honour the next person's RIGHT to CHOOSE to take or shun narcotics!

that make sense? Its all down to YOUR RIGHT TO CHOOSE. Guns were here way before you and me were born and they're hear to stay unless in some distant future we all manage to achieve "Star Trek Peace" but then even in star trek phasers were present - now would you say Picard & Co should not have been allowed a phaser when they were confronted by the Borg? Hmm? Don't get all "Star Trek is a TV show" on me - I am using it as an example and a blindingly good one considering the forum 

[ewm90]

posted on July 10th, 2008, 3:28 pm

Last edited by ewm90 on July 10th, 2008, 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

If we changed this from guns to abortion the right to chose would disappear. To me thats hipacidacule and weird. (flip flop)

Well if we had the right to choose on avery think that we wonted we would have anarchy.

Murder would be legal, rape, theft, drugs, racism, and much more thats not a world witch most people would like to see let alone live in.

If I wonted to argue that guns was a good thing I could dose that make is so "NO" threes what people wont and then there is what so. When you are able to make the difference you will have freedom from companies that tell you by buying guns you will find happiness and peace of mind.

[Dominus_Noctis]

posted on July 10th, 2008, 10:28 pm

Last edited by Dominus_Noctis on July 11th, 2008, 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The argument about guns is the same debate as the "smoking debate". Do smokers have the right to smoke? Likewise, do non-smokers have the right to live without smoke in the air from smokers? Inevitably it is not who is right or wrong, but which right (entitlement) takes presidence.

[ewm90]

posted on July 11th, 2008, 5:20 am

Last edited by ewm90 on July 11th, 2008, 5:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

There is no Wrong or right.....

The question if put under morality can never be answered because what is right and wrong is a matter of opinion, one just has to do what is best for ones self and ones world and guns have never has a positive impact.

[Dr. Lazarus]

posted on July 11th, 2008, 9:57 pm

Last edited by Dr. Lazarus on July 11th, 2008, 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

No I disagree, some things are simply wrong ewm. I've never bought the argument that the assessment is subjective, or that somehow a person can conclude that evil is not evil just because it is his "opinion". When two opposing views are expressed, it does not immediately follow that the truth is inbetween. One side can simply be wrong. I think the question of morality is much simpler than you make out. Most people, religious and atheist alike, are horrified when they hear a report of another senseless murder.

This may be a surprise, but I don't think the possession of guns is the problem - although it can make the problem worse. The problem is people's attitude, the problem is anger. To illustrate, we all possess many many instruments in our homes which are capable of causing serious injury to others (believe it or not). Take a look in the kitchen drawer, some of those instruments are lethal. Of course, they're designed for slicing bread or tightening screws, not for snuffing out another person's life, but as with any tool, they can be either used or misused. I accept that guns were in fact designed for combat, but I cannot avoid this overpowering sense that it is not possession of the weapon itself that leads a person to commit murder.

You may have heard the expression that if you take away guns, people will kill each other with knives, and if you take away their knives, they will kill each other with sticks, etc. Look around your home, if you think about it you can kill a person with almost anything. With enough anger and the right (wrong) frame of mind, you could kill someone with a chair. Here in Britain, guns aren't as common as in the US, so the local teens attack each other with knives, and if they don't have a knife, they beat the hell out of their victim. I heard of a guy dying because someone punched him once. Unlike in the movies, where this is kinda cool and warms you up a bit ready to fight back, this guys head hit the pavement and he died instantly.

This is why comparisons with the past are unhelpful. Guns may have been legal in the past, but if they were legal now in England, the situation would more closely resemble the modern US. If you don't tackle the root cause, this sinister anger people harbour, the lack of self control, the poor attitude towards life in general, then you can't solve the problem. This is also why I don't buy the argument that the cause of binge drinking in the UK is cheap alcohol. Sure, it makes the underlying problem worse, but it is not the problem any more than the wind was the problem when the first pig's straw house fell down. As a British citizen, I am (allegedly) surrounded by cheap alcohol but I don't have the slightest desire to go out and buy it. It tastes like crap, damages your health and people tend to do it only to impress their friends. Toilet paper is even cheaper but I am not overcome with the urge to stockpile it (not unless Israel attacks Iran  ).

People always discuss this as though people don't have a choice. We assume that alcohol being cheap means ---> binge drinking. Guns widely available and legal? Then -----> booom! Trigger pulled, person killed. It's a tempting conclusion, and on first glance it looks that way, but no, the problem is people's attitude, and similarly it is also anger which is the problem. At the beginning of The Minority Report, the guys kid is cutting bits of paper with scissors. When his wife later cheats on him, that benign and (rather useful) instrument became a deadly weapon (in one possible outcome, anyway!). Here's a couple of scenarios of my own:

Scenario 1) Ban all guns. This will probably reduce shootings, but like in the UK, we may end up with crime displacement (those angry frustrated young people become burglars or car jackers, or just use knives instead). Also, a black market may result. A bitter sweet solution.

Scenario 2) Somehow, eliminate the anger of the potential criminals, and/or eliminate any potential causes of frustration, e.g. family breakdown, unemployment, mental illness etc. By eliminating the root cause, it would not matter whether we were surrounded by guns, bat'leths, scissors, bread knifes or screwdrivers. They would not be used except for clay pigeon and holodeck exercises.

I also don't get why young people say they are bored, in an age of ever increasing knowledge and things to do. But that's another matter altogether. Maybe it's all to do with some sort of brain abnormality... 

posted on July 11th, 2008, 10:46 pm

No I disagree, some things are simply wrong ewm. I've never bought the argument that the assessment is subjective, or that somehow a person can conclude that evil is not evil just because it is his "opinion". When two opposing views are expressed, it does not immediately follow that the truth is inbetween. One side can simply be wrong. I think the question of morality is much simpler than you make out. Most people, religious and atheist alike, are horrified when they hear a report of another senseless murder.

This may be a surprise, but I don't think the possession of guns is the problem - although it can make the problem worse. The problem is people's attitude, the problem is anger. To illustrate, we all possess many many instruments in our homes which are capable of causing serious injury to others (believe it or not). Take a look in the kitchen drawer, some of those instruments are lethal. Of course, they're designed for slicing bread or tightening screws, not for snuffing out another person's life, but as with any tool, they can be either used or misused. I accept that guns were in fact designed for combat, but I cannot avoid this overpowering sense that it is not possession of the weapon itself that leads a person to commit murder.

You may have heard the expression that if you take away guns, people will kill each other with knives, and if you take away their knives, they will kill each other with sticks, etc. Look around your home, if you think about it you can kill a person with almost anything. With enough anger and the right (wrong) frame of mind, you could kill someone with a chair. Here in Britain, guns aren't as common as in the US, so the local teens attack each other with knives, and if they don't have a knife, they beat the hell out of their victim. I heard of a guy dying because someone punched him once. Unlike in the movies, where this is kinda cool and warms you up a bit ready to fight back, this guys head hit the pavement and he died instantly.

This is why comparisons with the past are unhelpful. Guns may have been legal in the past, but if they were legal now in England, the situation would more closely resemble the modern US. If you don't tackle the root cause, this sinister anger people harbour, the lack of self control, the poor attitude towards life in general, then you can't solve the problem. This is also why I don't buy the argument that the cause of binge drinking in the UK is cheap alcohol. Sure, it makes the underlying problem worse, but it is not the problem any more than the wind was the problem when the first pig's straw house fell down. As a British citizen, I am (allegedly) surrounded by cheap alcohol but I don't have the slightest desire to go out and buy it. It tastes like crap, damages your health and people tend to do it only to impress their friends. Toilet paper is even cheaper but I am not overcome with the urge to stockpile it (not unless Israel attacks Iran  ).

People always discuss this as though people don't have a choice. We assume that alcohol being cheap means ---> binge drinking. Guns widely available and legal? Then -----> booom! Trigger pulled, person killed. It's a tempting conclusion, and on first glance it looks that way, but no, the problem is people's attitude, and similarly it is also anger which is the problem. At the beginning of The Minority Report, the guys kid is cutting bits of paper with scissors. When his wife later cheats on him, that benign and (rather useful) instrument became a deadly weapon (in one possible outcome, anyway!). Here's a couple of scenarios of my own:

Scenario 1) Ban all guns. This will probably reduce shootings, but like in the UK, we may end up with crime displacement (those angry frustrated young people become burglars or car jackers, or just use knives instead). Also, a black market may result. A bitter sweet solution.

Scenario 2) Somehow, eliminate the anger of the potential criminals, and/or eliminate any potential causes of frustration, e.g. family breakdown, unemployment, mental illness etc. By eliminating the root cause, it would not matter whether we were surrounded by guns, bat'leths, scissors, bread knifes or screwdrivers. They would not be used except for clay pigeon and holodeck exercises.

I also don't get why young people say they are bored, in an age of ever increasing knowledge and things to do. But that's another matter altogether. Maybe it's all to do with some sort of brain abnormality... 

Wow, anything I have to add would just take away from the perfection you have attained with this post, Laz.

posted on July 12th, 2008, 5:19 am

No nothing is wrong we call it wrong but nothing is wrong until we say it is. But with out humans wrong and right dose not exist. No one is eval eval is a word we use to classify a behavior. As well as eval dose not exist nether dose good.

Well if its making the problem wears is that not a problem?

posted on July 12th, 2008, 11:01 am

No nothing is wrong we call it wrong but nothing is wrong until we say it is. But with out humans wrong and right dose not exist. No one is eval eval is a word we use to classify a behavior. As well as eval dose not exist nether dose good.

You sound like that Arabian guy from Matrix 2. (Love is just a word etc etc)



Honestly if you dont get it when Lazarous (fantastic post BTW) wrote it down so damn good then you'll never get it and this is a useless topic...

[ewm90]

posted on July 12th, 2008, 2:56 pm

Last edited by ewm90 on July 12th, 2008, 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I got it I don't agree with it.

When some thing is wrong it needs to be fixed or replaced. If some thing is not working as is maybe it just need to be altered or transformed.

Haw you ever found how when trying to fix some thing about your self it all most never go's well..

Its the morality right and wrong I am disagreeing with.

posted on July 13th, 2008, 11:14 pm

haha, good luck with that.  Trying to take on big concepts like 'right' and 'wrong' like you're doing is about as effective as tipping at windmills (those literate enough to have read a certain classic will get my reference). 

Just give it up. 

Concepts like 'right' and 'wrong' are the glue that holds society together, and trust me, you do not want society to fall apart.  You may question the value of them now, but they do exceptionally more good than harm.

posted on July 14th, 2008, 3:15 am

I not need to remove it from others to see the benefits of not living in right and wrong.

With out morality life is so much easer less stressful more enjoy able I just wish you had it. I am doing much better in my life after letting them go. Things are opening up right and left. LIFES IS FUN AGIN!

No morality dose not we do and we are not morality. Go to a interdiction about the Landmark Forum and see what I mean no joke! There are outer things that you can use, that don't make things black and white like morality dose life is not just black and white why should we use a concept that defines it as such.

posted on July 14th, 2008, 10:58 am

i have only 1 thing to say to you ewm - EPIC FAIL



I actually read that long post of Dr.Lazarus and it summed the whole topic of the thread up great, how can you not agree with that ewm? how can you not say something in favour of that?

posted on July 14th, 2008, 11:46 pm

I felt like the cat now I am the bird.

Hares are some things I have bean tot that deify resin but help you live a life you relay have only heard about. If one has this class the world be comes a different place for you.

The things in the you are tot or radical logical but not reasonable they are the best way I know to reach ones dreams. I am all about people expending past there own barriers.

People are not scared of being week people are scared of being powerful beonud messier.

To add good and bad in to it make it black and white in a gray world.

posted on July 15th, 2008, 12:03 am

Did you just essentially say 'screw morality' and 'life is easier without it', and that it's 'more fun'?  Do you realize that you've apparently fallen to the dark side?

*insert Darth Vader here*

But seriously, what you are saying is that you have no moral code - no distinction between right and wrong.    You basically said that anything is A-OK so long as it makes your life better.

This scares me.

However, if you know in your heart whether something is right or wrong - and if that determination isn't disgustingly selfish - you are actually wrong.  if that is the case, you do believe in morality, you just don't want to call it that.

You see, Ewm, morality may not be defined by the heavens.  It is, however, a choice.  To choose to live without mortal fiber is a choice as well.  It's a choice that leads to a useless life, spent doing nothing but amuse yourself.

What of that life when you die?  Nothing.  Absolutely none the fun you had will be here when you're gone.

I too have made I choice.  I have chosen to believe in something greater than myself, and to express that devotion by in turn devoting myself to others.  If I'm right, my soul will be at peace and I'll have done the greatest things for this world that I could. 

If I'm wrong Ewm, do you know what it is I'll leave behind?  A hell of a lot more than someone who lives for himself, Ewm.  I hope you make the right choice with your life, Ewm.