Spring tournament game statistics 5-14-2011

posted on May 18th, 2011, 6:05 pm

I suggested to add another "softer" method to balance...thats all

posted on May 18th, 2011, 6:48 pm

1v1 has to be the main focus of balance Drrrrrr, it's the basis for 2v2+ gameplay. If 1v1 isn't balanced, then you have little hope for team games. You yourself say you mainly play team games, so you can't really say you know that Dominion isn't underpowered in 1v1.

posted on May 18th, 2011, 7:13 pm

Drrrrr's just mad because his pet "frigate spam + supports with shield recharge" strategy has been taken away.  There are other ships in the Romulan tech tree that are available...

Suggesting that Dom only uses numbers when he or I or anyone else is trying to figure out the balance of things is laughable.  You're the only one who believes this.

I would also ask you to actually read the posts in a thread before responding, if it's not too much trouble.  I know you didn't read them because you wouldn't have needed to post this:

Dont feed Dom with those statistics...he will run around saying Feds are not too powerful because (random number) says they are not...

also a 1 dimensional statistic is quite pointless to me...balance is more than win/loss ratio.

I had already addressed this multiple times before.  Here are the quotes you missed.  I'll post them here so you don't have to go back and read everything:

Now, while we can't really use this data to "prove" anything (other than the feds and borg are REALLY popular right now

That's why the idea of using a statistics program isn't really feasible, as our sample sizes are weird and we haven't "graded" everyone.

Some of us test games in 1v1 and try to be a little more objective than "I think this race sucks!!!

All I'm saying is that "you'll attract more flies with honey than with vinegar" and people might be more willing to listen to you.  The old "I'm German and that's my excuse for being rude" defense that has been used before doesn't fly with anyone, because 91.734% of the Germans on this forum are really cool and laid back.  Well, maybe 93.862% during Oktoberfest.  

posted on May 18th, 2011, 7:32 pm

I think that these factions are balanced.  On the account that a player could feel like they are loosing and end up winning before he/she gets a chance to tech up.  The Federation does not need warp-ins to win if it's done correctly.

From the first post, I'd say that the Klingons are underpowered and the Federation is overpowered.  The average win/loss ratio of all of the races are 0.99.  The Klingons are 0.29 below this average, while the Federation is 0.24 above this average.  The other factions are only plus or minus 0.14.  But once those statistics are from larger numbers, we might see a change closer or further from 1.00.  But 0.99 is pretty good!

posted on May 18th, 2011, 8:20 pm

On such a small number of games its unwise to make asumptions is the game balanced or not. You need a lot more games and players. For me it only shown how dominion is unpopular with players.
For me personally, its not balanced but we are getting there. Team games are not balanced, more players greater the unbalance. But 1vs1 is probably closest to balance.
Im actually more worried about certain  tech tree unflexibilities, certain units being too usefull, while others too specific for only certain situations, and some races are much harder to play and less forgiving if you do mistakes.
Ofcourse new units and options will come in the next patches.

posted on May 19th, 2011, 6:04 am

@Mal

Really, the only point I wanted to make is that one race is not "der uber" race over all the others.  Each one is winning and losing at a similar rate.  If anyone wants to look deeper than that, then more power to them.

That is one post I was referring to...the others I referred to were from other ppl. No need to start a quote chain and no need to start to provoke me...

@Mayhem

If 1v1 isn't balanced, then you have little hope for team games. You yourself say you mainly play team games, so you can't really say you know that Dominion isn't underpowered in 1v1.

I didnt say that I mainly play 2v2+...I said with this patch I did. And balancing for 1v1 does, especially in FO, not mean its balanced in 2v2+ and the other way round. And this problem was one of the points I expressed by saying that FO can barely be balanced as a whole because of the complexity.

Im actually more worried about certain  tech tree unflexibilities, certain units being too usefull, while others too specific for only certain situations, and some races are much harder to play and less forgiving if you do mistakes.

That is what I was talking about as well.

I think that these factions are balanced.  On the account that a player could feel like they are loosing and end up winning before he/she gets a chance to tech up.  The Federation does not need warp-ins to win if it's done correctly.

I do not trust you nor god.

posted on May 19th, 2011, 7:08 am

Drrrrr, you have gone off the deep end.

I haven't seen all the tournament matches so I don't know if this is the case there, but lately I've been seeing a lot more new players starting with Klingons than with Feds.  Players decide whether they want cloaking or non-cloaking, then they either advance Feds->Borg->Dom or Kling->Roms, stopping at some point in the track when they find a race they like.

The changes to feds were more interesting this patch, while the changes to Klingons/Dominion are subtle and nerfy, which I think is leading a few older players to use feds.  So I think it IS possible that feds have an inflated ratio and klingons have a deflated ratio because of the skill of the people playing them.

As for Romulans...well, Romulan small ships seem to be well balanced which makes them effective on Duel.  Their current weakness only shows in 2v2 or on larger maps, and that gets into the realm of "do we WANT things to be balanced on larger maps?"  The devs are carefully avoiding giving players the ability to over-tech as was a problem in the old days.

posted on May 19th, 2011, 12:29 pm

Really, the only point I wanted to make is that one race is not "der uber" race over all the others.  Each one is winning and losing at a similar rate.  If anyone wants to look deeper than that, then more power to them.

That is one post I was referring to...the others I referred to were from other ppl. No need to start a quote chain and no need to start to provoke me...

Had you quoted this in the beginning and not as a defense it would be more credible....the irony of course is that that's the one thing these statistics can be used for in this tournament.  That's the "each race is winning and losing at a similar rate" part.  If you're having trouble with the statistics, here is something that will help you.

You're so worried about me provoking you on the forums.  Perhaps you should consider how your own behavior provokes others?   Also, I'll say it again.  Please read the other posts in the thread before replying.  It will save you all these problems.



So now that this thread has been reduced to a crying session balancing discussion, it's clear to me that everyone is complaining about Mayson feds.  You know what?  It's old news.  The devs know that you don't have to go past chassis one with them, what with all the lower tier ships being readily available, and the higher tier ships coming from warp ins.  Look, they know about that and have a plan to change the tech tree for them around.  In fact, they'll be changing the tech trees of ALL the races in the redoes.  This will hopefully make people happy.  They've said in the past that they want to get rid of the chassis system, if I recall.  In the meantime, target the big, slow warp ins first with some torpedo ships and watch the fed economy crawl to a halt.  Don't necessarily target the 24 defense Intrepid that can run away from you and repair while you lose all your ships doing so.

Remember, Torpedoes.  Big, slow ships.  They buy lots of tri-heavy supply.  You hit their tritanium.  No tritanium means no ships.  Go.  Win.  I can't make it any more simpler than that.

posted on May 19th, 2011, 1:08 pm

remember back many patches ago when gayson could skip engineering (and hence chassis 1) even and just go norways->warpins->e2 spam->fedroll

who needs tech trees? it was just a tech ladder for mayson to saunter up

posted on May 23rd, 2011, 12:47 am

i hate any type of warpin rush

posted on May 23rd, 2011, 5:41 am

You are simply not good enough Arash! 
The warpins are totally balanced! Every player can beat them! Practice more maybe!? 

posted on May 23rd, 2011, 2:02 pm

You are simply not good enough Arash! 
The warpins are totally balanced! Every player can beat them! Practice more maybe!? 

go beat a "REAL" federation player with warpin rush as borg and then talk to me.   

posted on May 23rd, 2011, 4:59 pm

I think Drrr was taking the mic Arash.

posted on May 24th, 2011, 9:01 pm

Iv beaten many federation oponents as borg and i havnt seen any issue with the warp in jusy yet.

The key is stopping them expanding early on then keep them boxed in their base then warp ins and intrepids/monsoons can be beaten with regen scubes and support scubes, before teching to spheres.

If they do get their expansion up then you need to raid their base mining as quickly as possible, problems only arise if you dont attack enough which i suspect arash is doing.

posted on May 26th, 2011, 8:43 am

I've noticed that Mayson players are starting to go Risner more often lately, and even some of those that don't are deviating from the standard Fedroll more often by employing flourishes like Norways and offensive warpins. It's not fixed yet, but it's heading in the right direction.