The Creeping - Part 1: Concepts

posted on July 9th, 2009, 11:07 pm

Gee, I wish we had one of them doomsday machines.

Nephalim was to some degree right concerning the humanoidness of species in the Star Trek Universe. One of the advantages of being humanoid is that you are prone of being protagonist in novell of some kind of earthling, since earthlings are so mich occupied with themselves ... . Even though the Cardassians made quite a development, they are still a minor race since they've been "wiped"

I do not think that FO should aim towards the same goals which were dictated by limited budget and the human/social cognition.

My personal wish: Noxter shouldn't have faces/heads ...

posted on July 9th, 2009, 11:33 pm

They won't have faces or heads: they are the ships

posted on July 9th, 2009, 11:57 pm

maybe eyes though.

posted on July 10th, 2009, 12:38 pm

*Sigh* Another one eh?
If you don't like it fine: state your reasons and let people discuss. If you can't be polite about it however, you don't belong here  >:( . Great way to make an impression Punisher. Your first post, and I can already see that you have no respect for Fleet Ops and the Devs. I never saw you complaining about the Noxter in Beta2, so why the fuss now? It might do you some good to read back on the forums a bit (or even this thread) to understand some things before you go shooting your mouth off at the people who make this mod from their own free time.

You dont understand and I admit that the previos messege was... offensive and also star terk is just a sci-fi its up to your imagination what are you want to add. but listen. Im drawing in my free time Im some kind of a stupid artist but if I draw a shit those who look at it will tell me "sorry guy that shit" no matter I sarcafieced my free time. Im not tellig the noxter is inacceptible but before that they should finish the Star Trek part of the game and for example Cardassian was are more Trek-like than the noxxxter. And my own suggestion that its just too 8472-like .AND i respect the devs but not the game I jusp play it when am bored.

posted on July 10th, 2009, 1:36 pm

Well, I think I see the main problem here: The Noxter are in some ways set en par with 8472 and because 8472 was in the Star Trek episodes, many ideas from the 8472 race come into with the noxter.

I did not read the Noxter essay (is there a link?)
But it is, like I read a more swarm-like species.
Also, I like to see that this species is way different from the way we actual play. AND we must balance it out so that this race is playable.

When we put all the edges together, we have this:
The engine it telling us, that we need Moons, Starbases and production yards. So the only way to alter the gameplay here, is that we combine starbases, yards and ressource centers in a way, we did'nt had until now.


So, lets go on in a logical way - what MUST be and what can we do to change the behavior?
The starbase is the mother. The question is, if we can have more than just one starbase, like other races can build. If not, the ships must be stronger in order to balance this fact out.
The Noxter need a constant amount of supply. And we have moons that change the dilithium/raw materials into "eat items" for the race. So when a rassource station gets destroyed, the Noxter may die.
This should be outbalanced with... well, it is a huge disadvantage. Maybe the ressource station is as mighty as a starbase or a perimeter?

Defense platforms:
These little helpers do a great job in order to defend you position and ensure that you can launch an offensive attack without thinking of your base too much. The problem is:
The Noxter do not really provide a real defense platform. They have their mother and the ships. So what do we do? We throw unborn eggs like torpedos against the enemy. I want to see that on the human side.
Pregnant mothers who shoot out the embryo in order to kill "the bas guys". No way!

I think, we can have this:
Central station, upgradable. This is "the mother" and the mother can grow to a station that is unheard in power. It will even surpass Deep Space Stations. But the mother is hungry. You have to fill in ressources. And *this* is a huge disadvantage. While you can sit and build for someone like the Federation, the Noxter cant sit and build, because they consume while sitting.

And because the consume is a balancing factor, a ship that will survive for lets say 10 minutes will depleed ressources another one can build for a dreadnought. A Noxter scout ship can use up the ressources a tactical cube might need, if it is waiting long enough.

So how can we outbalance this? My suggestion is: They consume ressources, so they grow in might. Every ship gets "born" as a little child and will grow over the time to a full fledged battleship. You can also upgrade this ship in "incubations" chambers when the mother developes new genetic-materials. Through adaptive methamorphosis, it is possible to upgrade a ship.

Example:

Devgrowth Ig IIg III
Destroyer I
Destroyer II
Destroyer III


In this table you might insert all offensive, defensive and system values and can add for example sepcial abilities. The more the class (Destroyer) is upgradet, you get more abilities, and the more the growth rate is increased, the more mighty gets the ship.

The same can be done with "bases".

Defense perimeters are... unkown in my eyes. I have no idea, how to combine them with the Noxter philosophy.

I also think, that the Noxter ships are all more or less short ranged attack vessels that need either to be very near to fire or "get on the ships hull" to break through it.

I think the deadliest ability of the Noxter should be, that they can similar to the borg assimilate enemy ships. They crush through the hull, kill the crew, learn "how to use the ship" (this will take a time) and after a while, the enemy ship is yours + mixed tech. This is the outbalance for the thing, that you dont really have mixed tech yards or something like that. The ship gets a "Noxter bonus" and counts as mixed tech.

Noxter ships need in order to get near an enemy vessel strong propulsion and a good defense. But with that, we already have 3 races with large defense patterns:
Federation, Borg, Noxter
Medium defense pattern: Romulan and dominion
Weak defense pattern: Klingons

The reduced offensive ability will be outbalanced with the ultra short range of Noxter weapons.

The system value should be really high. The Noxter only have a very weak shield but this shield will regenerate very fast. They go more on regenerative armor.

Great advantage of Noxter ships: There is no system you can attack. No sensor blackout, no weapon deactivation etc. So a great part of the enemy special-attacks will simply do nothing on Noxter ships. This is outbalanced with the large Tech-Tree the Noxter have.

Two cent from me for you o_O

posted on July 10th, 2009, 2:00 pm

Quite an ingenious idea to have the Noxter grow into battleships over time Sheva, that could be very cool .

Here's a rough summary of the Noxter's story. Forum search will give you a lot more information... 

Star Trek Armada II: Fleet Operations - Noxter an 8472 clone?

@ Punisher:
Ok, gotcha--more or less. However, I have a few points to bring up

for example Cardassian was are more Trek-like than the noxxxter. And my own suggestion that its just too 8472-like .

The Cardassians are entering as a main NPC for the moment (and eventually they will be in as a full race long in the future), but they do not play into the FO storyline because the Dominion wiped them out as a major power. Star Trek aside, this is an RTS, and to have another faction that plays pretty similarly to the Romulans, Federation, Klingons is not really ideal in my own opinion. I'd much rather have a completely unique faction (the Noxter are not at all like 8472: you should really look at some of the threads about them). Furthermore, this mod is based of the Devs RPG, and so that's why the Noxter and eventually the Ciadan and Iconians will be introduced into play. You said yourself that it is up to your imagination. Well why can't the Devs finally make a faction that IS up to their imagination? You paint what you want, you don't have to do what others says--but you can take comments and suggestions. That is what we--the fans--are doing. We give suggestions and criticism, but hte Devs have the gneeral ideas of what they want and the abilities to implement all of these things.

posted on July 11th, 2009, 9:24 am

I also like the idea of ships that grow up to be battleships . Perhaps the battleships could be their "veterans"; the ones that sing stories of when they were in the war back in the day.

As for the Noxter's existence, I think it's well within the FO Team's right to add their own race to what is essentially their own game now. I think FO has advanced far enough for it to be classed as a separate entity and entirely new game in it's own right. The justification is reinforced by the fact that FO is set sometime after the latest cannon period. It's not unreasonable to assume that a few new races have been discovered since the end of cannon.

If there are people that want to add Cardassians and other ST races before the Noxter then they should learn to add those races themselves or accept what they already have. There is in fact a Cardassian full race mod in development right now there's no need to whine about it .

posted on July 11th, 2009, 10:41 pm

I had an idea of sorts: They do not have avatars. Instead, they have "MOther" and "Father" beings that must be within proximity to shipyards for them to be able to produce ships. (And I hope that my ideas in the Offical Noxter Thread are implemented in some way, too!)

I assume that would mean the ships we kill would be there children, Killing children is not to fun to me especially on a mass basses.

Interesting idea tho

I think the FO team said the creatures would be a-sexual not needing of a partner.

posted on July 11th, 2009, 10:42 pm

Killing anything is killing children ewm. You are a child, as is everyone on this forum. Fair enough, all killing is immoral, but everything in FO is a child, so why are you playing that? The noxter are not really any different.

posted on July 11th, 2009, 10:44 pm

true I guess the mother and father elicited a image of babies flying throw space with the federation blowing them up.

posted on July 11th, 2009, 11:03 pm

Meh, did you have any concerns killing species 8472 in stock? They had a mother, they even had embryos that evolved.

At the end of the day it is a video game, about a universe which portrays humans in a very positive light. I doubt the federation would kill any offspring that it didn't need to.
Just imagine your game is actually a canon episode and somehow think of a rationale for your captains blowing people up. That's what I do.

posted on July 11th, 2009, 11:07 pm

true I guess the mother and father elicited a image of babies flying throw space with the federation blowing them up.

meh... think of it as cockroaches or bees or whatever.. maybe zerg... whatever fits your liking

posted on July 13th, 2009, 1:13 am

You know I think thaat it would just be awesome that instesd of researching things that  they would evolve, sort of like the veteran system, but all units would gain the same ammount of "adaptation", and possiibly it could be included for the borg as well.


how i think it should work, your avatar would gain xp from the ships he or she commands, and the more xp you have the more damage restance you gain

posted on July 13th, 2009, 1:57 am

My question is... what about the mixed tech? 

posted on July 13th, 2009, 3:03 pm

I doubt Noxter mixd tech would even be possible...