3.3.0 unofficial Rebalance patch (mod)

posted on December 17th, 2012, 9:25 am

Changelog updated.

posted on December 17th, 2012, 11:04 am

Hi,

as much as i appreciate your effort to improve current balance i think
you considerably lack game experience, especially when it comes to higher level gameplay.
Even if there is much complaining, balance has gotten better and is now somewhat decent, and note that it is often map-dependent.

Now some remarks from my personal experience as mainly playing the romulans.
In short, i think romulan vs. borg it is too hard (on duel II) and romulan vs. klingon/dominion it is too easy in 1v1.
Balance in teamgames is still vague, but i feel like there are still many new strategies waiting to be discovered and exploited to their full potential,
especially with arranged teams where you can actually plan and rely on each other.
And spefically regarding the ships you listed:
- Spectre and torpedo refits...they are both expensive and great, but situational, what doesn't make them bad units, but rare.
- Warbirds...I used to play around with them for quiet a while, some are great supporters (big D), some are aggressive and highly spammable (Norexan),
and in larger games you might rush them (especially against borg who often then seem helpless not knowing what to do), otherwise its suicidal, sounds all right to me.
- Leahvals...your bread and butter, always good, the backbone of your fleet, a support ship that actually deals damage, required against the feds in the way they are designed now and how they can be played.
Yes Feds don't have the perfect counter early in the game (later they do), but they have numbers, yards, warpin, the full package.
Yes they are a pain to kill but don't you think Fed spam is not?
Personally, I'd like to see becoming it a real support ship with entirely new specials.
Dominion struggles more against awesome Griffins, Klingon against Rhiens.

posted on December 17th, 2012, 6:06 pm

How about offering specific suggestions rather than "oh this is fine l2p"?

posted on December 17th, 2012, 6:28 pm

I answered most of his questions concerning the romulan faction or ruled them out as 'not necessary'.
In general, balance with 5 different factions is hard to achieve especially for 1v1 AND larger team games.
What i think is that most of his changes overdo it in a sense that they are 'too much' and result from a lack of game experience. I say this because this might save him from too much trouble that is not needed.
Id rather see minor changes like adjusting a few values as i think and so i said balance is somewhat decent.
And this is a tough point. I can not say tune this or that by exactly this. This requires extensive testing with trail and error with a larger number of decent players which are not available as they are testing the upcomming official patch.
I hope this helps you to finally comprehend my intentions.

posted on December 17th, 2012, 6:40 pm

Except balance is demonstrably not fine, especially with some very problematic units like the Leahval, and you are also forgetting that there is an additional goal of bringing lesser-used units back into play in order to get more diversity onto the battlefield.

posted on December 17th, 2012, 6:47 pm

Its a rebalance mod, so units that are just rare but otherwise alright,are 'fine' in that regard.
I see no issue with the Leahval. Feds have lvl1 spam + (late) warpin, Kli have KBQ spam, Borg have scube/probe rush, Roms are Roms and for the Dom its not the major problem, its more the unit mix the Romulans have.

Edit: Im referring to possible early game strategies not the best possible ones later in the game.

posted on December 17th, 2012, 6:51 pm

It is also a matter of perceived inbalances...maybe there are some hidden strats somewhere (with good teammates) but making so many asumptions basically renders these arguments pointless. If we fix what many people feel is inbalanced, we end up with a better game experience.

And to be frank, since I haven't seen any good replays for ages, I can't believe that things are NOW more or less balanced (new strats?)...so keep going on with your changes and later we'll see what comes out.

posted on December 17th, 2012, 7:25 pm

From the OP:

-Make every unit useful (and some less useful, but not useless)

And that's an essential part of this balance mod, in my opinion. You can't say that "everything is fine l2p" when you don't see most of the various tech trees in competitive games.

posted on December 17th, 2012, 7:35 pm

Good players do use those units and i've already used them too, frequently. Im sorry if they are not as simple to use as would be required for people like you.

posted on December 17th, 2012, 7:52 pm

Good players do use those units and i've already used them too, frequently. Im sorry if they are not as simple to use as would be required for people like you.

Ad hominem? I must have touched a nerve. Beyond the insult, I don't see much of a refutation.

posted on December 17th, 2012, 10:52 pm

Good players do use those units and i've already used them too, frequently. Im sorry if they are not as simple to use as would be required for people like you.

Then I suggest we leave the mod as it and watch 3 players use all the ships while other 147 just do the same easy strategy over and over again. I hope you see why I'm doing this. It's not just a random this is OP rant. A good game is about using every unit on all skill levels and making the units so, that the better strategy (and thus skill) wins, not a game that 15 skilled people will enjoy fully and the rest can play with 5 ships because everything beyond that is too hard for them.

posted on December 18th, 2012, 5:16 pm

I suggest you don't take the fan faction too serious...they claim things are much better now (compared some months ago) but show no evidence ...not even a single replay...
Just implement your changes and we shall see how funny games are.

posted on December 20th, 2012, 2:36 pm

Change log updated.


I'm thinking battleship buffs might not be necessary. After some talk with some vet's it may just by my n00bdom that kills me, not the tech up itself.

posted on December 24th, 2012, 11:00 am

The Feds are now mostly done: V 0.1 Alpha released. See the first page for info.


And as always: TY to FO team for creating this mod. Can't wait for the 4.0.

posted on December 24th, 2012, 11:08 am

i try now. thanks