Fek'lhr Class (FO 3.1.5) [Removed]

posted on February 17th, 2011, 10:56 am

Does no one want to have a cup of tea?

I dont think, that someone, who releases files for free is a bad guy. Not Majestic and not Tyler. You both are fans and have done work for fans - for free. Sometimes, those works will overlap and sometimes not. This happend here and WILL happen in the future.

I create a map for the community with objects, someone else created. And everyone, even the ones that created the objects I use are happy. I am happy, because my map is getting positive feedback, the community is happy, because they have a new map to play and Phoenix is happy, because his work is getting used that shows, that his work had a reason.

I get inspriration by music. If I create a map while listening to Kataklysm, do I credit them under the map? No. I got inspiration from my friends, from the media, from other community-members and even other games? Do I credit them in the readme? No. Why? Because every readme would be a book of thousand pages, if I note every single aspect that inspirated me for doing this.

So, chill down everyone. Tyler did'nt made a bad move on purpose.

posted on February 17th, 2011, 11:15 am

Being inspired and using someone other's work is not the same thing at all!
Only because here we're creating mods for free, it doesn't mean that Majestic doesn't have the same rights as those who would ask for money to allow you to use their work. You still have to ask him for permission.
You only can use anyones work without asking for permission, if it is stated directly in the readme.

posted on February 17th, 2011, 11:30 am

That wont change the fact, that Tyler didnt meant it bad. Or does he made an evil "I am Microsoft, all you work are belong to us"-move? He just forgot to ask without a bad intention. I also think, he realized, that this delicate case will drive him away from ever using Majestics work again. Or if I spell it the other way around: Majestics work will sleep on the servers and wont be used for FO. If I would be Majestic, it would make me sad. But I'm not him and I dont have the right to post on his manners.

I just think, that it is sad, if two fans clash at each other, because the whole game will suffer because of that. Pure destructive force without any gain for anyone. 

[Anonymous]

posted on February 17th, 2011, 11:51 am

Last edited by Anonymous on February 17th, 2011, 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Just to clarify, Majestic - I have absolutely no issue with your request, that's 100% understandable as you've had your work stolen a lot, and I support that, and I don't think you're a 'bad guy' in any way...

My only issue was with the wording of your post - I just think a lot of it was unnecessary, all that was really needed was "Hey Tyler, I no longer allow my work to be released, unfortunately I haven't been able to update all my readmes so would you be able to take it down please?"

Fair enough if you'd asked and been ignored, then by all means get pissed off....I just think it was unnecessary for the first post is all....it wasn't meant as a personal attack on you or your policy and I apologise if it came off as such.

posted on February 17th, 2011, 6:44 pm

For the interest of folks, the original Readme for the modification  "kfeklhr.zip" by Majestic is as follows and is available on A2 Filefront. There are parts of this Readme which are ambiguous and could be interpreted either way depending on what view point you take.

Klingn Fek'Lhr Replacement
----------------------------
Here is the Klingon Fek'Lhr battlecruiser from Starfleet Command 3. It replaces the stock Armada 2 Fek'Lhr. I have always liked this design but lets face it the stock one is pretty bad for todays standards so here is the SFC 3 version.

Installation
------------
Simply add the files to their respective folders, click yes to override the files. It is strongly recommended to back up the original files.

Mesh Details
------------
Poly Count: 1422 Pollies

Credit
------
Original Model and Textures by Taldern (Starfleet Command 3).
Conversion done by Majestic.

*Additional thanks to Lord_Trekkie for sending the the SFC 2 and 3 files (this model was amonug them) that are going to be used in my TMP mod.

Terms of Usage
--------------
1. Feel free to edit this file, but make sure you credit Taldern.
2. This model is not to be sold by itself or in a project.
3. Enjoy yourself.

Contact/Legal Notes
-------------------
Star Trek is the property of its respected owners, no infrigment is intended upon its copyrights.

If you need to contact me there are several ways.

1. Log onto majestic movie theatres the watch  at majesticscificentral.com and PM Majestic.
2. PM either me (Majest) on the forums at Star Trek: Armada 2 Mods, Star Trek: Armada 2 Maps, Star Trek: Armada 2 Downloads.
3. Email Majestic at majesticscificentral@hotmail.com


Miscellaneous
-------------
Remember to visit majestic movie theatres the watch  at majesticscificentral.com, home of MSFC Productions, for more Star Trek Armada 2 downloads available no where else.
Also to keep track of the Parallels, Federations, Modern Space Combat and Babylon 5: Age of Expansion mods which MSFC has the latest updates, weeks and sometimes months before any other website.

A suitable replacement could clear things up .

Klingn Fek'Lhr Replacement
----------------------------
Here is the Klingon Fek'Lhr battlecruiser from Starfleet Command 3. It replaces the stock Armada 2 Fek'Lhr. I have always liked this design but lets face it the stock one is pretty bad for todays standards so here is the SFC 3 version.

Installation
------------
Simply add the files to their respective folders, click yes to override the files. It is strongly recommended to back up the original files.

Mesh Details
------------
Poly Count: 1422 Pollies

Credit
------
Original Model and Textures by Taldern (Starfleet Command 3).
Conversion done by Majestic.

*Additional thanks to Lord_Trekkie for sending the the SFC 2 and 3 files (this model was amonug them) that are going to be used in my TMP mod.

Terms of Usage
--------------
1. Feel free to edit this mod for personal use ensuring that you add the "Credits" and "Contact/Legal Notes" sections from this Readme, to your Readme. Update as necessary but do not detract from the existing information therein.
2. This model is not to be re-released or sold in any form, upon the public domain, without written permission from the mod originator, Majestic. Download Mirrors are to be arranged accordingly.
3. Enjoy yourself.

Contact/Legal Notes
-------------------
Star Trek is the property of its respected owners, no infrigment is intended upon its copyrights.

If you need to contact me there are several ways.

1. Log onto majestic movie theatres the watch  at majesticscificentral.com and PM Majestic.
2. PM either me (Majest) on the forums at Star Trek: Armada 2 Mods, Star Trek: Armada 2 Maps, Star Trek: Armada 2 Downloads.
3. Email Majestic at majesticscificentral@hotmail.com


Miscellaneous
-------------
Remember to visit majestic movie theatres the watch  at majesticscificentral.com, home of MSFC Productions, for more Star Trek Armada 2 downloads available no where else.
Also to keep track of the Parallels, Federations, Modern Space Combat and Babylon 5: Age of Expansion mods which MSFC has the latest updates, weeks and sometimes months before any other website.

Thread closed.

posted on February 17th, 2011, 6:52 pm

Thread closed.

that only works for mods

i agree the readme was confusing. you cant stop people editing a file for a personal mod, even if u say they cant edit at all, if they keep it for a personal mod nobody will ever know lol.

i think "feel free to edit" implies that rereleasing is ok.

as when he mentions no using it in projects it is part of "dont sell it clause" which is significantly different from "dont release"

i would be disappointed if a modder took somebody elses work and sold it for money lol.

[Majestic]

posted on February 17th, 2011, 10:57 pm

Last edited by Majestic on February 17th, 2011, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I never said Tyler was bad or anything, I stated I was annoyed that I wasn't asked and interpretation is a poor excuse for not asking permission in the first place. Asking permission is a Community wide policy and not just on A2Files, MSFC and AFC but in other gaming communities like SFC, BC and beyond.

If I was asked it wouldn't been something else and if some members here hadn't talked about me like I was some kind a horrible evil person as it had been implied it would've been different.

Free to edit does NOT mean re-releasing, this is just another situation where a artist (in this case a modders rights) are simply ignored. So typical this incident has reminded me why I created my site in the first place and made downloads only available to members. Personal use is different when it comes to editing, but releasing is an entirely different ball game. 

But considering that isn't the case here, well case closed. I am in the progress of pulling all my files down off A2Files, having developed a friendship with all three of the staff there we are discussing this situation and the possibility of my files being removed.

I have been really disgusted in some of the responses here which if you read in-between the lines state I have no rights as an artist, which is very wrong and something I thought I would never see in a A2 Community or site.

I'll be leaving now.

P.S Tyler no hard feelings it was an honest mistake that was fixed and thank you for being so quick to pull the file. If you ever want to use something of mine again please just ask, however I won't be allowing it to be posted here are the response i have gotten from some others in this thread. Sorry.

posted on February 17th, 2011, 11:08 pm

nobody here is ignoring your rights majestic, you do have artists rights.

nobody, however, has the right to get so angry and hostile over a misunderstanding which stemmed from their own outdated and unclear readme.

if u want your policy to be adhered to, make it clear in readmes, reading the original readme gave me the impression you were cool with rerelease as you said no explicitly to selling for money, and gave explicit permission for editing, but made no mention of non profit release.

asking permission is obvious if the readme says nothing or says ask every time, but in this particular case the readme implied it was ok, which is giving permission.

i'm sorry you feel negatively towards the fleetops community, i find it a generally friendly bunch.

posted on February 17th, 2011, 11:12 pm

P.S Tyler no hard feelings it was an honest mistake that was fixed and thank you for being so quick to pull the file. If you ever want to use something of mine again please just ask, however I won't be allowing it to be posted here are the response i have gotten from some others in this thread. Sorry.

No problem. If I use any more of yours, do you object to putting them on A2Files?

posted on February 17th, 2011, 11:16 pm

Majestic only allows his files to go on MSFC, that way he can control who gets what and doesn't end up having to ask to have files removed.  Its unfortunate, but he has good reason, and i think that most of his work definitely worth going to msfc for.

[cabal]

posted on February 17th, 2011, 11:48 pm

Last edited by cabal on February 17th, 2011, 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I just recently saw this thread. I believe that anything from Maj that's up on A2F is probably from before the importer controversy. For those that don't know, the importer is a tool that let people import Armada 1/2 SODs that didn't come with the game into a modeling program. The controversy began when people started making small changes to people's work and releasing it without giving credit to the original authors. MSFC and Majestic's current policy were created in part as a reaction to this.

Regarding the readme, it's really hard to get a file removed from the FF network. Even if you were to upload a 1.1 version with an updated readme the old 1.0 version with the outdated readme would still be on the site.

Does no one want to have a cup of tea?

I actually don't like tea. I'll just have some water.

posted on February 18th, 2011, 12:01 am

It's a shame really because Majestic work is pretty majestic. As a kid, I played A2 and used dl his older stuff almost exclusively, since no one else really came close, alongside maybe one other guy (Dan'something'or'other who did the Cardassian stuff).

I didn't catch the brunt of the catalyst which caused Majestic to reign in his mods but I do remember when MSFC came about and that his mods suddenly started disappearing and/or were otherwise not being posted elsewhere. I was sad because at the time, I did not like to sign up for places just to get hold of a few mods. Prior to FO, I've never modded for release or done owt particularly impressive.

The nearest I've come, outside of FO is a seven deck ship on Little Big Planet (currently being upgraded with LBP2 features) complete with working 4 cylinder In-Line engine, a story, gradual sinkabilty and explorability underwater and host of other smaller features. I've also designed an AI bot which will respond to player input, by attacking, running away hibernating or laughing when it hears a fart. I'm working on adding special abilities to allow it to charge at the player and then electrify it's skin, to "feign" hibernation and the electrify the player if they try to sneak past it and to work under the direction of a command unit to hunt down and corner the player. However, both those mods are incomplete and have not been released

I do respect why you are angry though (just not in the way you expressed it, is all). I'd be annoyed if someone stole one of my maps and probably pissed off if someone tried ripping one of the above mods. Hell, someone probably already has ripped my maps lol . However, if I had the above original readme, I'd kerb my response to a friendly slap on the wrist (thankfully LBP has safeguards against such actions built in). Unfortunately, in this day and age, it's too much to simply expect people to derive the meaning of "Do not re-release" from "Feel free to edit", when really, "Feel free to edit" means "Feel free to edit" and in no way mentions release policies . There best way to do that is to put it in writing: big, bold, everywhere and to the point. Kind of like a contract. Because, no offence intended, but if you were to take Tyler to court over this particular incident and Tyler's defence lawyer saw that Readme, s/he would rip apart the prosecution.  ^-^

Anyway, I digress. I am sorry that this incident has caused you to embargo this forum :-[ because your work is great and the Fleet Ops community really is a decent community, with some decent growing talent. Incidentally, I don't know if you've looked into modding Fleet Ops specifically but the scope is far in excess of standard A2, so I bet there's some good modding opportunity for you here. I am mearly a humble map maker but there are a few who dabble in the way of the code and what I've seen is promising.

*Just seen Cabal's post*
That has cleared up a bit of the history that I was unclear on .

"Thread Closed."

that only works for mods

posted on February 18th, 2011, 12:58 pm

I just recently saw this thread. I believe that anything from Maj that's up on A2F is probably from before the importer controversy. For those that don't know, the importer is a tool that let people import Armada 1/2 SODs that didn't come with the game into a modeling program. The controversy began when people started making small changes to people's work and releasing it without giving credit to the original authors. MSFC and Majestic's current policy were created in part as a reaction to this.

Regarding the readme, it's really hard to get a file removed from the FF network. Even if you were to upload a 1.1 version with an updated readme the old 1.0 version with the outdated readme would still be on the site.
I actually don't like tea. I'll just have some water.

Yeah, and I recently found out that even when they are removed, they aren't actually removed.   They are removed from the a2files file browser, but are sometimes still available on filefront itself.