replacement for phalanx

[Tyler]

posted on May 30th, 2011, 1:53 pm

Last edited by Tyler on May 30th, 2011, 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Weaknesses add a new risk, making victory stand out more. Stupid way to do it, but winning with a crutch is more notable.

They don't seem to be much of a problem though, they're mostly ignored in battle and seem to be rather low priority targets.

posted on May 30th, 2011, 2:01 pm

Weaknesses add a new risk, making victory stand out more. Stupid way to do it, but winning with a crutch is more notable.

so how come they dont all fly around in cargo ships? even klingons know that you cant win every battle. and you cant afford to let your dudes die valiantly in every battle either, or you have no army left.

They don't seem to be much of a problem though, they're mostly ignored in battle and seem to be rather low priority targets.

which i find silly as well. nacelles are only a target when it comes time to disable warp engines. yet nacelles appear to be filled with explody stuff as when they get hit things start exploding and the ship goes boom too.

posted on May 30th, 2011, 2:09 pm

so how come they dont all fly around in cargo ships? even klingons know that you cant win every battle. and you cant afford to let your dudes die valiantly in every battle either, or you have no army left.

A crutch just adds a bit of difficulty, that's not exactly suicide.

Funny you mention Cargo ships, considering a group of Klingons took one into battle before and killed a Klingon warship...

yet nacelles appear to be filled with explody stuff as when they get hit things start exploding and the ship goes boom too.

Probably depends on the force you hit with and where you hit, the one time it proved a genuine problem was when a ship hit a nacelle. Hitting the warp core or torpedo store would probably be much worse.

Plot also counts, I suppose.

posted on May 30th, 2011, 2:29 pm

A crutch just adds a bit of difficulty, that's not exactly suicide.

there are many other ways to add difficulty. like turning the difficulty level up to legendary, or turning the shields down to half.

i dont think they'd design a ship with a weakness on purpose just to make them die valiantly more often.

they still have to actually win the war.

posted on May 30th, 2011, 2:36 pm

Considering the previosly mentioned lack of interest in them and only the rare ship collisions proving a threat, they were never proven any more of a problem than any other part of the ship. Especially with the Structural integrity field making them just as hard to hurt.

I'd stick with the standard being more efficient or safe for the crew. Even if that isn't the reason, they could just like the ships looking like that.

posted on May 30th, 2011, 2:39 pm

the fact that they arent targetted often doesnt imply they are not vulnerable. every time somebody shoots at the nacelles the warp engines go out. thats a huge win for the attacking side. yet it doesnt happen very often, because it would become a default tactic if its so useful. new trek remained hindered by the old design of having nacelles on sticks.

the romulans would like it cos it makes their ships look like (war)birds

posted on May 30th, 2011, 2:43 pm

I never said they weren't vulnerable, I said no more vulnerable than the rest of the ship. Different things.

posted on May 30th, 2011, 2:44 pm

I never said they weren't vulnerable, I said no more vulnerable than the rest of the ship. Different things.

excuse me, i meant the same sort of thing

posted on May 30th, 2011, 4:38 pm

the one time it proved a genuine problem was when a ship hit a nacelle. Hitting the warp core or torpedo store would probably be much worse.

Plot also counts, I suppose.

From what I remember from the technobabble in cannon, the warp nacelles contain pressurized plasma which is used somehow in the warp coils to generate the warp field.

The warp core is the insta kill for a ship as that generates a significant antimatter explosion, as well as detonating the antimatter storage pods.

The torpedo store is likely not THAT much of an issue, as unless the torpedo is armed (IE: loaded with antimatter) it's explosive capacity is not that large.

posted on June 2nd, 2011, 4:15 pm

i remember a couple of episodes where the nacelles were easy pickings.  the episode where the cardassians, klingons and enterprise were looking for some ancient race from DNA clues or whatnot.  the cardassians took out the klingon nacelles and almost took out the enterprises nacelles with only a couple of phaser hits.  there was another episode where a klingon ship was disabled by a quick shot to the nacelles.  there are probably more examples that im forgetting about as well.  meanwhile i dont recall the defiant ever having a nacelle knocked out and having them far away from the ship doesnt explain why they so often have such tiny support structures attaching them to the hull.

to be honest i dont look at issues like this from "canon" perspective because its a tv show and star trek has a long history of contradicing itself........after all its a tv show.  they designed it because it looked cool to them and nothing else.  the cardassians have their nacelles located close by.  as someone pointed out the klingons at least have a sturdier looking pylon, hell the romulans have two connecting their nacelles.    then of course their are runabouts and shuttles which i seem to remember having their nacelles knocked out all the time when landing on some strange planet.

as for the klingon fighting style issue as cool as the klingons taking over DS9 episode was when it came to space fights it really sucked hard on the mano a mano stuff.  i would have had little phaser turrets set up all over the station that would instantly target anyone beaming in anywhere on the station.  we already know they can differentiate species with scanners.  i would have had the lights off and given the security forcers some night vision goggles or whatever the equivalent would be in the future.....probably night vision contacts.    and why dont more starships and starbases utilize holographics troops more.  as long as you have power and the emitters are online you have a unlimited supply of troops.  and as someone pointed out how come they didnt have transporter inhibitors like we saw used on a PLANET.  id think a space station would be easier to "inhibitize" than a planet.  like i said i dont put alot of stock in the technobabble cause it changes from episode to episode and sometimes it changes alot.

posted on June 2nd, 2011, 4:23 pm

i remember a couple of episodes where the nacelles were easy pickings.  the episode where the cardassians, klingons and enterprise were looking for some ancient race from DNA clues or whatnot.  the cardassians took out the klingon nacelles and almost took out the enterprises nacelles with only a couple of phaser hits.

Far as I remember, they were playing along with the Cardassians and planned for what they were going to do. The Enterprise, was at least.

there was another episode where a klingon ship was disabled by a quick shot to the nacelles.  there are probably more examples that im forgetting about as well.  meanwhile i dont recall the defiant ever having a nacelle knocked out and having them far away from the ship doesnt explain why they so often have such tiny support structures attaching them to the hull.

The first part is part of what Myles was talking about; they only disable, when they should kill. What happens depends on the circumstances, though.

Only thin pylons are used because they don't need thick ones; the Structural Inegrity Field makes them as durable as the rest of the ship.

posted on June 2nd, 2011, 4:31 pm

ooooo this is entertainiang, And about, Nacel Pylons, transport inhibitors, and holographic troops this is my theroys:

Holographic Troops: Well, the federation isn't the most peaceful race there is, but i think that they think there above such dominionish acts, and plus they conspired with the shows creators to make intresting television.

Transport Inhibitors: Face it, humans are not the smartest beings flying aroud in ships, much less an old cardassian station.

Nacel Pylons: (see above reason)

And about the Phalanx Model i can site several differences between Michael Kellys and th FO verson:

1. The pulse Bays are quantum and are located on the top of the saucer, whereas the stock ones are normal and located on the secondary hull,

2. yes the nacels are longer

3. the Magnan emitter is longer and narower

4. there are actualy torpedo bays on the weapons pod, whereas in stock its a external magnan collector

posted on June 11th, 2011, 5:48 pm

that was one thing that always bothered me about the feds, the nacelles. they are easy targets, both the nacelle and the pylon.

then you look at the other races, their nacelles are easy to hit too, but not the pylons, they are usually stronger looking.

then you look at brels/defiants, and their engines are harder to hit. which fits with them being all combat ships.

guess you could explain it by saying that having nacelles sticking out from the ship saves fuel. and the defiant uses fuel less efficiently.

Or maybe this is why the enterprise/voyager loses warp drive 30 seconds into every other fight.