Fantastic Game - Suggestions

posted on October 12th, 2013, 10:23 pm

That DS9 got to use the Galaxy as much as they did surprises me to this day.

the same reason avery brooks was allowed to shave his head: tng was finished. so ds9 could have a bald captain and blow up a galaxy class starship to introduce the jemhadar[/url]).

also the switch to cgi for later battles meant that they could build their own galaxy class (with blackjack and hookers).

The episode "The Jem'Hadar" would have been filmed at around the same time as "All Good Things", so the Galaxy class was still the Enterprise at that time.

And the insistence that Avery Brooks grow his hair during the first couple of seasons came from wanting to distinguish Sisko from the actor's previous role, Hawk, in the series Spenser: For Hire and the spinoff A Man Called Hawk.

posted on October 12th, 2013, 10:37 pm

Oh I see, so its alright when a Defiant survives its awesome but when a Galaxy actually fights off a Borg Cube 3 times and a Borg "Adaptor", its seen as "plot armor". Wow, how incredibly one sided... The Sovereign defeated the cube without even breaking a sweat, even before Picard had his psychic connection or whatever. So yeah, I'm sorry to break it to people but the Defiant is just not all that.

Armada I and II got it right... disposable, overpowered and worthless ship for any longevity.

Plus there was only ONE Galaxy destroyed in the entire of DS9's run. I'm serious, aside from "the Jem'Hadar" and in the battle sequences you never see a dead Galaxy. Yet people hark on about the Galaxy being destroyed by three bugs because that makes it weak. No starship can survive a direct ramming and the Dominion was using technology the Federation had never even seen before, if it had been any other ship, it would have been destroyed as well.

Infact... in "The Search" the Defiant was pawned the first time by the Bugships.

posted on October 12th, 2013, 10:48 pm

First 'fight' was Borg probing the Galaxy, second 'fight' was Cube only interested in Picard and losing interest in the Galaxy afterwards, third 'fight' had them sabotage a Cube that was still not interested and still ignoring them. Not much of an achievement. The Adapter also outclassed the Galaxy in every way, they had to use the Sun for that instead of the ships actual weapons and defences.

Defiant was in the middle of a full battle and was still used after. Big achievement. As for the Defiant vs bugships; see your post about the USS Odyssey.

Fave facts: Defiant's a warship, the Galaxy is not (god, that hurts to type...). There's a reason it's the only ship in canon to have the definition 'Battleship' applied to it. Just end the Defiant-hating crusade.

posted on October 12th, 2013, 10:51 pm

First 'fight' was Borg probing the Galaxy, second 'fight' was Cube only interested in Picard and losing interest in the Galaxy afterwards, third 'fight' had them sabotage a Cube that was still not interested and still ignoring them. Not much of an achievement.

Defiant was in the middle of a full battle and was still used after. Big achievement.

Fave facts: Defiant's a warship, the Galaxy is not (god, that hurts to type...). There's a reason it's the only ship in canon to have the definition 'Battleship' applied to it. Just end the Defiant-hating crusade.

Actually the Galaxy is a Battleship, modified as a combat vessel during the Dominion War and served with distinction. The Defiant is not all that you big it up to be. It failed at the only job it was meant to do and was a terrible warship. This has nothing to do about my personal feelings about the ship, this is about bring canon ship balance to the game. Hell, a retrofitted Excelsior tore holes in the Defiant and actually caused massive damage, to the point where Quantum Torpedoes would have destroyed it.

Stop the Galaxy hating and I'll stop the Defiant hating. The Galaxy is a stronger ship then is represented in this game where it is just a measly "supporting" vessel. Bad call in my opinion.

The Galaxy's special ability in this game is not representative of this vessel and I think the Devs have paid far too much attention to the "warships" and their own designs. Its obviously more thought was put into the Defiant and Phalanx then most of the other more traditional Federation ships.

posted on October 12th, 2013, 11:03 pm

Galaxy = Explorer: armed to defend itself, but only that. They may have upgraded it for the war, but canon makes no indication of any changes.

The fact that the Defiant can't solo a Cube doesn't mean bad warship, it only shows Starfleet is still beneath the Borg at that time. It has still proven more powerful than almost all non-Borg ships it faced.

The Lakota was given weapons that matched the Defiant specifically to kill it, while both ships were holding back. The Lakota also ended the fight in a worse condition than the Defiant.

Also, why would you accuse someone who was hurt admitting something is stronger than the Galaxy of 'Galaxy-hating'? I'm actually known as a Galaxy fan, one of the ones who argued for Galaxy Seperation being added. I just know it has limits and is below the true warships in battle.

posted on October 13th, 2013, 1:47 am

Galaxy is no warship, it has family of officers on board for long range exploration missions. Twice was called battleship,
1. episode "yesterday enterprice" when was build for troops not family members... (more a troop ship than battleship)
2. cant remember episode name, retrofitted by canon and third warp cell , comanded by Riker, callled battleship because of retrofit and it was one of its kind , kinda rebuild old ship with a reputation for a Admiral Riker.

Defiant is a warship, and in a2 it was a joke...
but project defiant was posponed because engine instabily solved by O`Brien.

posted on October 13th, 2013, 2:02 am

Galaxy is no warship, it has family of officers on board for long range exploration missions. Twice was called battleship,
1. episode "yesterday enterprice" when was build for troops not family members... (more a troop ship than battleship)
2. cant remember episode name, retrofitted by canon and third warp cell , comanded by Riker, callled battleship because of retrofit and it was one of its kind , kinda rebuild old ship with a reputation for a Admiral Riker.

Defiant is a warship, and in a2 it was a joke...
but project defiant was posponed because engine instabily solved by O`Brien.

Only the First Generation Galaxy Class starships had families aboard. While I agree that this was a questionable Federation policy, the Federation later changed its policy with the introduction of much more combat orientated ships. I find it a bit strange that nobody here considers that the Galaxy has been given considerable refits considering its spaceframe was predicted to last 100 include refit cycles.

The Galaxy is a capable battleship and yes, if you want me to stop calling the Galaxy a "Battleship", then stop calling the Defiant one which is actually classed as an "Escort" officially but a "Warship" unofficially. I also fail to see how the ship was even considered important when there was only one of them present at every major encounter during the Dominion War.

This ship is probably the biggest amount of fanboism in the entire Star Trek fanbase and its just not warranted for a ship that is so flawed. In Armada II, they go it bang on... disposable ship whose only purpose was to support the real starships.

posted on October 13th, 2013, 2:16 am

A lot of this seems like opinion to me, for both sides. It is your opinion that the Galaxy is a warship and the defiant is expendable. It is clearly the Devs opinion that the Defiant is a warship and the Galaxy is no longer in production, with only skeleton crews for the ones that are.


Sounds to me you need to go play Dominion Wars. The defiant was pretty good for a ship its size, but the Galaxy was a dreadnought.

posted on October 13th, 2013, 5:22 am

A lot of this seems like opinion to me, for both sides. It is your opinion that the Galaxy is a warship and the defiant is expendable. It is clearly the Devs opinion that the Defiant is a warship and the Galaxy is no longer in production, with only skeleton crews for the ones that are.


Sounds to me you need to go play Dominion Wars. The defiant was pretty good for a ship its size, but the Galaxy was a dreadnought.

So the same as STO then? ignoring canon to promote their own favorite ships? Technically both ships should be strong in their own right. Its the same with the Sovereign, many think it was designed to replace the Galaxy, it was not...

- Provide a multi-mission mobile platform for a wide range of scientific and explorative research projects.
- Replace Excelsior, Ambassador, and New Orleans class Starships as the primary instrument of Federation deep-space defense.
- Provide autonomous capability for full execution of Federation defensive, cultural, scientific, and explorative policy in deep space or border territory.
- Serve as a frontline support vehicle during times of war and emergencies.
- Provide a mobile platform for testing and implementation of mission-specific or new technology of any kind.

posted on October 13th, 2013, 6:24 am

I fail to see the problem you have with the Galaxy being used for combat in FO. Before the Defiant, every Federation starship was not built for combat but for exploration, transport or any civil purpose. Now, they also have guns because they need to defend themselves and the Federation when the need arises.

With the shows starting with tng, the Federation encountered a lot of threats (wouldn't be fun without) and they got scared and designed a small ship which was not designed for any civil duties. They didn't even admit it publicly.

Still, the Galaxy is a much larger ship, and when the Dominion war came, most ships were refitted. That the big, huge ship was then assigned the role of a battleship or a dreadnought makes sense.

posted on October 13th, 2013, 6:38 am

A lot of this seems like opinion to me, for both sides. It is your opinion that the Galaxy is a warship and the defiant is expendable. It is clearly the Devs opinion that the Defiant is a warship and the Galaxy is no longer in production, with only skeleton crews for the ones that are.


Sounds to me you need to go play Dominion Wars. The defiant was pretty good for a ship its size, but the Galaxy was a dreadnought.

So the same as STO then? ignoring canon to promote their own favorite ships? Technically both ships should be strong in their own right. Its the same with the Sovereign, many think it was designed to replace the Galaxy, it was not...

- Provide a multi-mission mobile platform for a wide range of scientific and explorative research projects.
- Replace Excelsior, Ambassador, and New Orleans class Starships as the primary instrument of Federation deep-space defense.
- Provide autonomous capability for full execution of Federation defensive, cultural, scientific, and explorative policy in deep space or border territory.
- Serve as a frontline support vehicle during times of war and emergencies.
- Provide a mobile platform for testing and implementation of mission-specific or new technology of any kind.

Most of that is assumption or from non cannon sources. All we really know is that in TNG it was used as a colony/exploration ship and in DS9 some of them were refitted with better weapons. We never really saw any of them do more than the defiant.

posted on October 13th, 2013, 9:16 am

I always thought the Defiant was essentially a mobile gun. It was fast, armored and had lots of forward facing weaponry. A Defiant also managed to take on the Neghvar class in the alternate universe and that was a crappy copy that was probably missing stuff like ablative armor and quantum torpedoes. As far as taking damage I would think that a Galaxy would take more damage simply because of its sheer mass provided its shields were up. The Defiant had the edge when shields were down though it seemed. Hard to judge though as both ships seemed to have varying degrees of toughness depending on who they were fighting.

Someone can correct me but weren't there references in TNG where their shields were down on the Galaxy and supposedly one more hit would take them out. I can't remember if they had any prolonged fights without their shields or not. I do remember a few episodes where the Defiant kept fighting even though its shields were down due to the armor.

posted on October 13th, 2013, 3:01 pm

Alright everyone, stop your bickering and arguing about the Defiant-class and the Galaxy-class because based on Star Trek Canon the Defiant-class is classified as an Escort but unofficially is a warship, nothing more nothing less to quote Captain Benjamin Sisko in the episode "The Search" (Part 1). The Defiant-class was specially designed to fight and defeat the Borg. Until she was fixed by Chief Miles O'Brien the USS Defiant NX-74205 had design flaws and was overpowered so in her initial test runs she almost tore herself apart so the project was mothballed. With the Dominion threat to Deep Space Nine Commander Sisko asked for the Defiant saying: "She may have flaws but she has teeth."
The Defiant-class, especially the USS Defiant NX-74205 was equipped with Ablative Armor allowing the ship/class to take a heavier beating/pounding from an enemy. With the Ablative Armor the USS Defiant NX-74205 was able to stand up to the stronger Dominion ships as well as the USS Lakota NCC-42768 which had also been upgraded. If anyone remembers, the Lakota was still not a perfect match for the Defiant and during that battle the Lakota received more casualties than the Defiant and could have been destroyed.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Defiant_class
http://ds9.trekcore.com/episodes/season ... opsis.html

In the beginning part of this video, Commander Sisko explains all about the USS Defiant NX-74205 and the Defiant-class:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2Moff8DdQM

USS Defiant NX-74205 vs USS Lakota NCC-42768:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6Kod0F-MD0

Now on to the Galaxy-class, and unfortunately I don't have much to say about this class of ship. I will say this, the Galaxy-class was designed to be a starship for exploration and not precisely a battleship (minus the Galaxy-class X-Refit) and the Dominion War Refits. Because of the Galaxy-class's role as a ship of Exploration, it was designed to house the families of the crew/officers and also could carry many passengers.
In emergency situations or in battle, nonessential personnel, passengers and families would be evacuated to the saucer section for separation and then the ship would be separated with the saucer fleeing at impulse speeds well the stardrive section would go into battle. The two sections would re-merge after the threat had past or after the battle.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Galaxy_class
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Galaxy_X_class
http://thecordsthatbind.files.wordpress ... -refit.pdf

The Galaxy-class:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IqNjWs1UGQ

Galaxy-class Fire Power:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=d734afLFPds

posted on October 13th, 2013, 3:43 pm

Alright everyone, stop your bickering and arguing about the Defiant-class and the Galaxy-class because based on Star Trek Canon the Defiant-class is classified as an Escort but unofficially is a warship, nothing more nothing less to quote Captain Benjamin Sisko in the episode "The Search" (Part 1). The Defiant-class was specially designed to fight and defeat the Borg. Until she was fixed by Chief Miles O'Brien the USS Defiant NX-74205 had design flaws and was overpowered so in her initial test runs she almost tore herself apart so the project was mothballed. With the Dominion threat to Deep Space Nine Commander Sisko asked for the Defiant saying: "She may have flaws but she has teeth."
The Defiant-class, especially the USS Defiant NX-74205 was equipped with Ablative Armor allowing the ship/class to take a heavier beating/pounding from an enemy. With the Ablative Armor the USS Defiant NX-74205 was able to stand up to the stronger Dominion ships as well as the USS Lakota NCC-42768 which had also been upgraded. If anyone remembers, the Lakota was still not a perfect match for the Defiant and during that battle the Lakota received more casualties than the Defiant and could have been destroyed.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Defiant_class
http://ds9.trekcore.com/episodes/season ... opsis.html

In the beginning part of this video, Commander Sisko explains all about the USS Defiant NX-74205 and the Defiant-class:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2Moff8DdQM

USS Defiant NX-74205 vs USS Lakota NCC-42768:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6Kod0F-MD0

Now on to the Galaxy-class, and unfortunately I don't have much to say about this class of ship. I will say this, the Galaxy-class was designed to be a starship for exploration and not precisely a battleship (minus the Galaxy-class X-Refit) and the Dominion War Refits. Because of the Galaxy-class's role as a ship of Exploration, it was designed to house the families of the crew/officers and also could carry many passengers.
In emergency situations or in battle, nonessential personnel, passengers and families would be evacuated to the saucer section for separation and then the ship would be separated with the saucer fleeing at impulse speeds well the stardrive section would go into battle. The two sections would re-merge after the threat had past or after the battle.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Galaxy_class
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Galaxy_X_class
http://thecordsthatbind.files.wordpress ... -refit.pdf

The Galaxy-class:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IqNjWs1UGQ

Galaxy-class Fire Power:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d734afLFPds

That is true and I'm not actually trying to make the two comparable but you are neglecting the fact that the Galaxy Class Starship is a true multi-role vessel which can be fitted for a variety of different duties. Something that the Defiant cannot do. The Defiant also was not perfect as the ship was almost destroyed by their first encounter with the Dominion as well, as in "The Search".

All I am saying is that this mod classes the Defiant based on fanboism, rather then on actual canon evidence. The Defiant is far too powerful in this game.

posted on October 13th, 2013, 9:19 pm

the trouble is in the shows the abilities of both ships were tweaked depending on what the script needed of them. meaning ships were buffed or nurffed on a episode basis.

thats why the enterprise fired many shots of phasers and torpedoes at the cube in one episode and yet in other fights in used its weapons sparingly.

in armada 1/2 the defiant was equal to a bird of prey while on the shows it could take one out in 2 bursts in about 5 seconds.

unfortunately its the scripts that make such non-uniform results or all the ships. (how in the war all ships decided to switch off shields because it looked more dramatic for battle sequences)