Borg being captured
Which race do you like most? What do you like - what you don't like? Discuss it here.
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posted on September 9th, 2010, 6:39 pm
hey, I haven't played online or anything.. but I have noticed that lack of borg shielding makes them more convenient to board. ... that is not to say easy to board. Taking over cubes with 10 000 drones takes a sizable fleet with heavy losses. I do it for entertainment purposes. But yes, as for smaller ships, I could see why this might be an issue.
As for the realism, as was said earlier... I'd give Klingons or Jem'Hadar the advantage in hand to hand any day against the borg. Nothing from the series suggests they are immune to hand to hand.. they just adapt to phaser fire. But if you had troops of klingons or jem hadar with bat leths or hand held weapons, they'd slice the borg up easily. The borg are slow and sluggish, seem to rely on strength and sheer numbers. Jem Hadar would run circles around them, which with their speed I'm sure they could. Klingons would just go on a killing frenzy. But as goes with adaptibility... it is more than likely they would eventually find an upper hand.
Federation are resourceful. With voyager being the way it was... they made a fair point in showing that borg ships could be targeted for missions.
I do not in any way see Romulans going up against borg. Brute force has never seemed like their style except when they can decloak warbirds that out number you three to one. But even this is more strategic planning and coordination than brute force.
When I first downloaded this, and saw that the borg were without shields I was rather surprised... but the looking at the drone count for some of their ships. lol I suppose this is really only an issue for the scouts.
As for the realism, as was said earlier... I'd give Klingons or Jem'Hadar the advantage in hand to hand any day against the borg. Nothing from the series suggests they are immune to hand to hand.. they just adapt to phaser fire. But if you had troops of klingons or jem hadar with bat leths or hand held weapons, they'd slice the borg up easily. The borg are slow and sluggish, seem to rely on strength and sheer numbers. Jem Hadar would run circles around them, which with their speed I'm sure they could. Klingons would just go on a killing frenzy. But as goes with adaptibility... it is more than likely they would eventually find an upper hand.
Federation are resourceful. With voyager being the way it was... they made a fair point in showing that borg ships could be targeted for missions.
I do not in any way see Romulans going up against borg. Brute force has never seemed like their style except when they can decloak warbirds that out number you three to one. But even this is more strategic planning and coordination than brute force.
When I first downloaded this, and saw that the borg were without shields I was rather surprised... but the looking at the drone count for some of their ships. lol I suppose this is really only an issue for the scouts.
posted on September 9th, 2010, 6:44 pm
Last edited by Tyler on September 9th, 2010, 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
godsvoice wrote:As for the realism, as was said earlier... I'd give Klingons or Jem'Hadar the advantage in hand to hand any day against the borg. Nothing from the series suggests they are immune to hand to hand.. they just adapt to phaser fire.
The series canon disagrees... they have forcefields that can deflect people. They used one to keep Worf away from Locutus. The Klingons and Jem'Hadar aren't nearly as strong as a drone, neither are they as many in number. They would get worn down and fall before the Borg even get serious.
Borg having the highest boarding strength fits the show.
posted on September 9th, 2010, 7:25 pm
Yes, I remember the forcefields. However, in first contact Data gets behind a drone and breaks his neck. Also in First Contact, Worf uses his weapon to cut off the arm of that one drone. I entirely agree that a drone is much stronger, but considering how they were portrayed namely in first contact, and several episodes, they are also very slow(Klingons and Jem Hadar would have speed as advantage). They are shown more as zombies that can be fought, until they get up close and can grab on to you. Mostly just advance towards you until they're all on top of you and they just assimilate you and there's nothing you can do.
I again agree, the main strategy would be to wear down klingon or jem hadar troops with numbers
I have a feeling the way it was presented in the series was whatever they wanted the scene to be. If they wanted the borg to seem invincibly strong, a fight was avoided. But if they had characters like worf or data around who actually would be able to do something against a borg drone, then it wasn't so clear cut. Drones have no weapons, and can only harm you when they can hold onto you and assimilate. That's all I've ever seen them do.
If they do in fact have forcefields that deflect people, which they do, it doesn't seem like it is always implemented. On the other hand, if cutting off limbs is fair game... I'd say Klingons and Jem Hadar have a fair chance.
Unfortunately, I'd have to say the way the series puts it... drones are more like cannon fodder. Different once they;ve adapted to your weapons. But can't really adapt to the edge of a blade.
I'm still a bit reluctant on the forcefield point. They can't assimilate you if all they keep doing is putting up force fields that propel you away. Eventually, when they get close and want to assimilate you, there won't be any forcefields to get in the way. I'd say hand to hand combat is in.
I again agree, the main strategy would be to wear down klingon or jem hadar troops with numbers
I have a feeling the way it was presented in the series was whatever they wanted the scene to be. If they wanted the borg to seem invincibly strong, a fight was avoided. But if they had characters like worf or data around who actually would be able to do something against a borg drone, then it wasn't so clear cut. Drones have no weapons, and can only harm you when they can hold onto you and assimilate. That's all I've ever seen them do.
If they do in fact have forcefields that deflect people, which they do, it doesn't seem like it is always implemented. On the other hand, if cutting off limbs is fair game... I'd say Klingons and Jem Hadar have a fair chance.
Unfortunately, I'd have to say the way the series puts it... drones are more like cannon fodder. Different once they;ve adapted to your weapons. But can't really adapt to the edge of a blade.
I'm still a bit reluctant on the forcefield point. They can't assimilate you if all they keep doing is putting up force fields that propel you away. Eventually, when they get close and want to assimilate you, there won't be any forcefields to get in the way. I'd say hand to hand combat is in.
posted on September 9th, 2010, 7:28 pm
well we only saw borg drones responding to weapons.
maybe if they were getting boarded a lot they would adapt, and download new tactics into their tactical drones.
plus they can use forcefields to separate small groups, assimilate them, then move on.
also we saw those rogue drones had weapons in TNG: Descent, maybe these are normal borg tech, but only deployed when necessary.
maybe if they were getting boarded a lot they would adapt, and download new tactics into their tactical drones.
plus they can use forcefields to separate small groups, assimilate them, then move on.
also we saw those rogue drones had weapons in TNG: Descent, maybe these are normal borg tech, but only deployed when necessary.
posted on September 9th, 2010, 7:31 pm
Regarding First Contact - they were on the Enterprise rather than a Borg ship so may not have had access to their forcefield tech (since the forcefield seemed to be generated by the ship rather than a drone iirc).
Also, it's been shown that drones can walk through Borg forcefields many times, so really they could box you in with forcefields and then just stick some assimilation tubiles through the forcefield and get you....
Also, it's been shown that drones can walk through Borg forcefields many times, so really they could box you in with forcefields and then just stick some assimilation tubiles through the forcefield and get you....
posted on September 9th, 2010, 7:33 pm
also drones could survive in space for protracted periods, so they could just vent the atmosphere and you die.
posted on September 9th, 2010, 7:34 pm
Last edited by Tyler on September 9th, 2010, 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Anti-personnel forcefields were only shown on a Borg ship, so they might be intended for defense rather than offensive uses. That would explain why they were only on the Borg ships.
Hand-to-hand also won't work if the Borg decide to assimilate you; you're in arms reach and they tend to swarm from all directions available with near limitless numbers, while you can only hit a few at a time (at most). That's what makes cannon-fodder effective weapons. Transporting in (or coming through a wall, in Data's case) and taking you off guard isn't new to them, either.
They are quite capable of surprise attacks, just ask those two engineers early into First Contact.
Hand-to-hand also won't work if the Borg decide to assimilate you; you're in arms reach and they tend to swarm from all directions available with near limitless numbers, while you can only hit a few at a time (at most). That's what makes cannon-fodder effective weapons. Transporting in (or coming through a wall, in Data's case) and taking you off guard isn't new to them, either.
They are quite capable of surprise attacks, just ask those two engineers early into First Contact.
posted on December 22nd, 2010, 2:58 pm
Tyler wrote:Would giving it a standard shield, but setting the shieldprotection to 0 block transporters? All Weapons would go through by default and the thing should be invisible, so the shields won't effect balance or looks at all.
It could be a passive called Electromagnetic field, like the same anti-transporter tech they used in canon.
A question regarding the shieldprotection. Are there several modi (e.g. 0,1,2,3) or is it merely a measure for shield strength.
If it is the former, what do each of the modi do.
posted on December 22nd, 2010, 3:05 pm
It's the percentage of the damage the ships shields block, like the accuracy figure; 0.5 is 50%, 0.75 is 75%, ect.
posted on December 22nd, 2010, 4:08 pm
I think it should be made so borg ships cannot be captured because even if by some miracle a bording party managed to kill all the borg without being assimilated (yeah right) and before they adapted to their weapons (yeah right) then they still could not control the ship as in an episode cant remember which or even which series lol but i remember hearing it needed the collective mind to control since there is no bridge and only repairs could be done by contorl panel.
After a while boarding partys should start doing nothing other than being assimilated back into the borg ships crew.
O and dont bother telling me youv never met a klingon before... we have all seen klingons on borg ships that have clearly been assimilated you cant go 1on1 with a robot data proved that when he beat down worf.
After a while boarding partys should start doing nothing other than being assimilated back into the borg ships crew.
O and dont bother telling me youv never met a klingon before... we have all seen klingons on borg ships that have clearly been assimilated you cant go 1on1 with a robot data proved that when he beat down worf.
posted on December 22nd, 2010, 4:18 pm
Games need compromise. If you're going to bring up that part, the fact that a Borg fleet of several Assimilators, Spheres and a Cube should also destroy every fleet in the game regardless of skill or size wouldn't be far behind.
Game first, canon second.
Game first, canon second.
posted on December 22nd, 2010, 4:20 pm
Kestrel wrote:I think it should be made so borg ships cannot be captured because even if by some miracle a bording party managed to kill all the borg without being assimilated (yeah right) and before they adapted to their weapons (yeah right) then they still could not control the ship as in an episode cant remember which or even which series lol but i remember hearing it needed the collective mind to control since there is no bridge and only repairs could be done by contorl panel.
The Borg released by unimatrix Zero didn't have a collective mind and were still able to operate a vessel.
posted on December 22nd, 2010, 4:26 pm
Andre27 wrote:The Borg released by unimatrix Zero didn't have a collective mind and were still able to operate a vessel.
Erm no every borg ship have a node that was brought up in voyager and this keeps them conected with all borg. As if the queen is just going to release them. All borg drones control the ship not 1.
posted on December 22nd, 2010, 4:40 pm
the borg kids in "collective" had no issues flying their ship from an incubation chamber.
actually the queen did lose control of ships when the unimatrix zero drones severed from the hive. this is evidenced by the klingon drone's sphere attacking the tactical cube. the collective lost control of that sphere.
borg ships can be run without the hive mind, but i would bet that they run most efficiently and reach their optimum when connected to the hive.
so maybe captured borg ships (when does that ever happen to anything bigger than a detector lol) would operate with reduced stats.
Kestrel wrote:Erm no every borg ship have a node that was brought up in voyager and this keeps them conected with all borg. As if the queen is just going to release them. All borg drones control the ship not 1.
actually the queen did lose control of ships when the unimatrix zero drones severed from the hive. this is evidenced by the klingon drone's sphere attacking the tactical cube. the collective lost control of that sphere.
borg ships can be run without the hive mind, but i would bet that they run most efficiently and reach their optimum when connected to the hive.
so maybe captured borg ships (when does that ever happen to anything bigger than a detector lol) would operate with reduced stats.
posted on December 22nd, 2010, 4:45 pm
Last edited by Tyler on December 22nd, 2010, 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
They were flying their Sphere like profesional Trek fighter pilots, but it never specified if they were still connected to each other or the ship, just that they weren't part of the greater whole.
It's possible the ships Central plexus didn't connected their ship to the collective, but they still had a link themselves. Like the Unity Borg, who were still able to control their ship when powered.
Greatly reduced regeneration, maybe? The collective will has a big impact on that.
It's possible the ships Central plexus didn't connected their ship to the collective, but they still had a link themselves. Like the Unity Borg, who were still able to control their ship when powered.
Greatly reduced regeneration, maybe? The collective will has a big impact on that.
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