Will we ever see the Cardasians on FO?

posted on April 6th, 2009, 5:40 pm

Not likely, most (if not all) are dead and the civilians are in charge. It was hinted in Voyager that the Cardassians were still the same after the war, but the Order isn't coming back.

Not the way it used to be, at least.

posted on April 6th, 2009, 5:44 pm

but now again you're extrapolating based on your selective opinion.

The FO storyline is then more relevant here.

After all the Iconians were supposed to be extinct, but FO is bringing them back.... analogy holds

posted on April 6th, 2009, 5:46 pm

but now again you're extrapolating based on your selective opinion.

My opinion? I'm going by Memory Alpha.

Also that year, the Obsidian Order was engaged in a major operation to mount a joint attack with the Tal Shiar on the Founders' homeworld. Masterminded by former Order head Enabran Tain, the Order assembled a number of warships in the Orias system, without the knowledge of the Central Command. (DS9: "Improbable Cause") The attack, however failed due to a changeling infiltrator, and the entire fleet was destroyed in an ambush by the Jem'Hadar. This failure crippled the capabilities of the Obsidian Order, essentially causing it to cease to exist. (DS9: "The Die is Cast")

With the looming threat of the Dominion, and without the Order's tight control over popular dissent, a civilian uprising overthrew the Central Command in 2372, reinstating the authority of the Detapa Council. (DS9: "The Way of the Warrior") After the Cardassian Union joined the Dominion, the Obsidian Order's role was assumed by Dominion security and the Cardassian Intelligence Bureau, who by all accounts were just as efficient.

posted on April 6th, 2009, 5:48 pm

their eradication is canon. the fact of whether they return or not on a rebuilt Cardassia is what I was referring to when I mentioned "extrapolation".

It is common knowledge that the Obisds were wiped out.

But we were discussing their re-emergence for the FO timeline, and that was where our discussion was actually focused.

posted on April 6th, 2009, 5:52 pm

The FO timeline is 'extrapolation'.

If an organization is wiped out, who exactly is going to teach new recruits? The ghost of Tain?

[Anonymous]

posted on April 6th, 2009, 5:57 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on April 6th, 2009, 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

. that's a linear thought process. The order itself is not something that is taught. Im sure even if the KGB were wiped out, and ll KGB agents are killed, a new agency can easily be founded by people who are soundly aware of spying techniques.
The Tal shiar itself was closely associated with the order. If a similar order were to be re-established the Tal shiar would be the first in line to attempt to bolster them.
It would add to Romulan influence on a planet that is now more Fed leaning, and would also serve as an access point of infiltration.

So the rebuilding of the order has many permutations and combinations. Realistic evaluations cannot be made under vacuous assumptions and extrapolations. Instead they need to be based on actual and closely followed analysis of the Cardassian geo-political structure - not possible in STU land, and hence going one way or the other is left to the FO story-tellers.

It is for this very reason that I completely disagree with the current dogmatic bias against any further Cardasian-dom alliance even at a rogue level. Whereas rogues are known for being the most unpredictable of all, seeing allies in even the worst enemies as long as it suits geo-political objectives.

posted on April 6th, 2009, 6:03 pm

well we'll never know for sure

if there will ever be a new st show(what i doubt) the writers can still introduce a new old character who was on vacation during the time the ordner was wiped out...

posted on April 6th, 2009, 6:05 pm

lol 

agreed 

At this time, the FO team is our script writer 

posted on April 6th, 2009, 6:10 pm

It would add to Romulan influence on a planet that is now more Fed leaning, and would also serve as an access point of infiltration.

Is this 'Fed-leaning' world Cardassia? Captain Braxton implied that the Cardassian didn't abandon their old lifestyle (calling a 20th Century Police Officer a 'pseudo-Cardassian' isn't exactly a compliment).

[Anonymous]

posted on April 6th, 2009, 6:33 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on April 6th, 2009, 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

well, again that's your opinion based on a vague statement by a captain of already dubious mental soundness.
I hope you arent using this 29th century take as an understanding of what happened after the Dom war, where it was clearly implied by Garak that the new govt would be different from the old - setting the environment right for just those Cardassians who wanted the old military/obsidian order (especially those who would stand to lose out in the new order) to commit dissent.

For all we know it is this rogue faction that may end up winning, which would account for Braxton's summarized view of 400 years in the future - making what I'm saying even more canonical than your take lol. 

I think Svars said it best - the script writers are the ones who will ultimately decide this.
At this time our script writers are the FO team and their storyline.

As has been demonstrated, the re-founding of the Obisdians, or even a rogue faction that ultimately allies with Sona/rogue jems etc are all very plausible, and in point of fact, just as feasible given the end of DS9 and the general mood of many mainstream military CArdies - who would end up having to ally with former hated enemies such as the Feds, bajoran, and even Klings (think back to the mindset of GenChang in ST 6) - as the arguments going the other way.

In fact IMHO this twist does add a bit of depth to an otherwise 2D storyline if indeed the dissident/rogue element were taken into account.

posted on April 6th, 2009, 6:42 pm

So your personal opinion on the Cardassian furture is more correct and viable than mine, though mine comes from a line in the show?

[Anonymous]

posted on April 6th, 2009, 6:44 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on April 6th, 2009, 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

but as i just indicated m8, Im citing those same lines from the show, and am able to come to my conclusions.
btw - your conclusions aren't purely based in the show. you are doing the same thing as I - taking bits and pieces from the show and adapting them to suit what you want to see.

which is what I said above

I hope it makes what I am trying to say a little clearer
So at the end of it each permutation is possible, and I for one prefer a more dynamic view of STU reality which would entail the subterfuge and dissident ruses that would really make our FO game more robust while allowing the inclusion of our favorite races, which today are only shunted out due to unimaginative dogma such as Cardies-Dom no how, ever.

think Gen chang and the Rommies at the end of ST6 - whoa Klings and Feds and Roms conspiring together . Yet all 3 hated each other.... get my drift about dissidents and rogues 
hence my suggestion of jem-cardy-sona rogues.

nothing can be ruled out, especially when dealing with creatures as duplicitous as the Cardies who, minus the arrogance of the Rommies, can sink to any level in order to get things done to their interests.

posted on April 6th, 2009, 11:34 pm

Cardassians not arrogant? They usually seem pretty arrogant to me, especially ones like Dukat. Or was that just a Superiority Complex?

On another note, have my recent posts in this thread started to resemble a certain other member of the site?

[Anonymous]

posted on April 7th, 2009, 12:08 am

Last edited by Anonymous on April 7th, 2009, 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

Cardassians not arrogant? They usually seem pretty arrogant to me, especially ones like Dukat. Or was that just a Superiority Complex?

On another note, have my recent posts in this thread started to resemble a certain other member of the site?

Think Romulan. then think Cardassian. Any ST fan will get the difference.
On another note - Im not into guessing games. sorry.

There doesnt seem to be any point in continuing this. you seem to be catching the bull by the tail and deliberately responding with ridiculous obtuseness.

Please read what has been said with a little more emphasis on understanding what is being said. We're trying to discuss, not argue.

posted on April 7th, 2009, 12:16 am

Think Romulan. then think Cardassian. Any ST fan will get the difference.

Romulans are more arrogant, Cardassians are quite capable of those same traits.

There doesnt seem to be any point in continuing this. you seem to be catching the bull by the tail and deliberately responding with ridiculous obtuseness.

It's been a boring day, not really much to do.