Visual Refit on Rank-Up

posted on January 27th, 2011, 1:07 pm

Varients is most likely. The structure should dtay the same but the function can still change by replacing some tech inside it, so seperate subclasses would be best.

However, the Lakota varient is a subclass but will be used as a veteran rank-up. So I don't know what type of thinking FO uses.

posted on January 27th, 2011, 10:59 pm

Oh my bad, I always just assumed it was modular. If it isn't , then would each different version (Melbourne, Phoenix, Farragut) be refit variants of the same class like the TOS and TMP Connie? Would it still make sense to have it upgrade pods on rankup, or would it be better to just leave each class separate?

well if u believe its modular you are welcome to your opinion

i am of the opinion i expressed in that thread, that they arent modular. the debate is all there in that thread, both sides put their reasons down.

i dont think nebulae should change pods on rankups.

posted on January 28th, 2011, 9:54 pm

The Nebulae are definitely NOT modular. I'm sure it would be possible to rebuild a Melbourne variant to a Phoenix variant, but it would need a hell lot of work! Just imagine!
For the Melbourne, you have to connect the warp core with the two additional narcelles. Do you think that the ship will take many tons of unnecessary parts of the connection elements with it, if it uses another pod?
For the Phoenix variant you need to reconfigure the sensors completely as the long-range sensors will be suited in the upper disc section, while in the two other models they're alongside the edge of the engineering hull and the saucer section.
For the standard variant you completely have to rebuild the fire control and the targeting systems and some of the sensors as well.
These are huge changes, which would need several months of work.

If you want to see a modular ship, check the Insignia Class. It IS modular. Or maybe the Miranda variants, although I'm not completely sure about it.

For the visual refit: Veteran crew doesn't neam automatically a refitted ship. The Excelsior is the best example for it. During the Dominion War, two subtype was in service the Lakota (originally Enterprise-B, because that was the first one!) type and the Hood type. Both type has its advantages and disadvantages, and you can't say that the Ent-B type is absolutely superior to the Hood type.
Some ships just don't worth to be refitted, or there is no time, or it fits better to its crew/original mission etc. Not every ship of a class was refitted.

posted on January 28th, 2011, 10:08 pm

lol if you want to talk about the modular neb discussion, put it in the modular neb thread. it wasnt locked
Star Trek Armada II: Fleet Operations - Fed Module Debate

this thread should stay on topic.

posted on January 28th, 2011, 11:18 pm

For the visual refit: Veteran crew doesn't neam automatically a refitted ship. The Excelsior is the best example for it. During the Dominion War, two subtype was in service the Lakota (originally Enterprise-B, because that was the first one!) type and the Hood type. Both type has its advantages and disadvantages, and you can't say that the Ent-B type is absolutely superior to the Hood type.
Some ships just don't worth to be refitted, or there is no time, or it fits better to its crew/original mission etc. Not every ship of a class was refitted.

Isn't the point of veterans and to a lesser extent rank 5 to represent all the Kirks and Picards and Siskos that don't have camera crews following them every week? If there was any refitting being done, wouldn't it be to these elite crews and their legendary ships?

I always assumed that the refitted Excelsior (Ent B ) was similar to the refitted Connie in that it was supposed to be all around better. You just didn't see many in the shows because after Generations they pretty much stopped using physical models and they already had the CGI done for "Flashback" of Sulu's Excelsior.

As for each version having its pros and cons, that's an interesting thought. Just out of curiosity, what pros would the Hood type has over the refit? Could be an interesting gameplay thing where the Vet has to sacrifice something to get all that super crazy pwnage that they do.

And on an unrelated note, this is the greatest smiley I've ever seen.

posted on January 29th, 2011, 1:26 am

For the visual refit: Veteran crew doesn't neam automatically a refitted ship. The Excelsior is the best example for it. During the Dominion War, two subtype was in service the Lakota (originally Enterprise-B, because that was the first one!) type and the Hood type. Both type has its advantages and disadvantages, and you can't say that the Ent-B type is absolutely superior to the Hood type.
Some ships just don't worth to be refitted, or there is no time, or it fits better to its crew/original mission etc. Not every ship of a class was refitted.

The Lakota subtype is known, but what is the "Hood" subtype?

posted on January 29th, 2011, 1:35 am

The Lakota subtype is known, but what is the "Hood" subtype?

It's just the regular Excelsior. The Hood was in the first episode of TNG I think.

posted on January 29th, 2011, 11:52 am

I think I've seen a second Excelsior sub-type, or at least one with different Warp Nacelles.

posted on January 29th, 2011, 6:35 pm

Actually, Ive always thought the refit, and the lack of fleet-wide refit of all ships of the excelsior class, mustve meant that both the lakota and the enterprise-B simply received a different configuration based on their mission. Was the Enterprise-B's mission ever mentioned canonically ( or non-canon for that matter ) ?

It would have been strange to receive a ship upgrade as a reward for crew performance. Thats not just unpractical, its just weird in a social sense, lol.

I would assume the normal ( 'Hood' ) type is just a standard allround cruiser, fit for all sorts of roles typical to the feds, whilst the lakota type has some specialized equipment for, say, long duration deep space missions, or how about extra sensor equipment, because they wanted the ship to study certain scientific phenomena in sectors that were either far away or uneasy to reach for standard scientific vessels. Just take a top-of-the-line exploration vessel, refit it so it is able to study the phenomena in detail, unlike standard excelsior sensors, and voila, theyre on their way.

posted on January 29th, 2011, 7:29 pm

It would have been strange to receive a ship upgrade as a reward for crew performance. Thats not just unpractical, its just weird in a social sense, lol.

I dont think its that odd after all in the military nowadays the best shooters always get the best guns.

[Tyler]

posted on January 29th, 2011, 7:33 pm

Last edited by Tyler on January 29th, 2011, 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Which would support Starfleet giving the new upgrades to the most experienced crews first; they're going to want a crew who has proven they could actually use the tech.

Rank and prestiege does need some benefit, after all.

Actually, Ive always thought the refit, and the lack of fleet-wide refit of all ships of the excelsior class, mustve meant that both the lakota and the enterprise-B simply received a different configuration based on their mission. Was the Enterprise-B's mission ever mentioned canonically ( or non-canon for that matter ) ?

The B's mission wasn't ever mentioned, I don't think the ship itself was ever seen outside of Generations either. As far as known canon information is concerned, they're just varients of the regular Excelsior.

posted on January 30th, 2011, 4:35 pm

It's just the regular Excelsior. The Hood was in the first episode of TNG I think.

It has modified narcelles. I always thought that the Ent-B refit was something very expensive and time costly, and so it didn't worth for Starfleet to refit all the Excelsiors they built. Especially that they had the Ambassador, the Apollo and later the Galaxy and the Nebula for deep-space exploration.
The Hood-type refit on the other hand is cheap and it can be done quickly. It only makes the class up-to-date, just like they did with the Miranda Class. No expensive refits, only modernization of the existing systems.

IIRC there are some books about Ent-B where the good captain is far less idiot than he seemed in Generations. THe missions were quite similar to the other Enterprises'.

posted on January 30th, 2011, 4:40 pm

I think the Enterprise-B was a varient, not a refit. It seemed like it was built with the altered design rather than reiftted from the more common design.

posted on January 30th, 2011, 5:16 pm

I think the Enterprise-B was a varient, not a refit. It seemed like it was built with the altered design rather than reiftted from the more common design.

I agree, I doubt they'd have the whole 'champagne-bottle' christening for just a refit of a ship, that's something that's reserved for the launching of a new ship - not to mention the media-circus and the presence of Kirk and the others - which would tend to indicate a 'handover' from one Enterprise crew to the next...

[GaryOak]

posted on January 31st, 2011, 12:25 pm

Last edited by GaryOak on January 31st, 2011, 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I dont think its that odd after all in the military nowadays the best shooters always get the best guns.

They do? Also, thats quite different from refitting an entire ship / building an entirely new variant for one specific crew as to reward them for whatever :p Crews manning ships change regularly anyway..

Also ( see below ) the Ent B crew was reasonably new and inexperienced wasnt it? So even if I would agree with you on this ( and I dont >.< ) it probably wasnt the case here..

Which would support Starfleet giving the new upgrades to the most experienced crews first; they're going to want a crew who has proven they could actually use the tech.

Rank and prestiege does need some benefit, after all.

Indeed, but note that the reward to the crew's experienced behaviour is their elevation into this new function, not the equipment, right?

I agree, I doubt they'd have the whole 'champagne-bottle' christening for just a refit of a ship, that's something that's reserved for the launching of a new ship - not to mention the media-circus and the presence of Kirk and the others - which would tend to indicate a 'handover' from one Enterprise crew to the next...

Yes I agree. This seems clear. Did I argue it the other way btw? :p *looks*

Well I think I was talking about the refit of the design, rather than the ships..anyway its pretty clear the Ent B was built in this variant from the start..