The Breen Avatar Ships

posted on September 8th, 2006, 12:31 pm

D'Deridex: 422 shields 181 hull

Norexan: 423 shields 181 hull


is that the D'deridex with the Avatar cause if it is, all it does is prove my point that the noroxan is a waste of space

[Anonymous]

posted on September 8th, 2006, 1:42 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on September 8th, 2006, 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

D'Deridex: 422 shields 181 hull

Norexan: 423 shields 181 hull


is that the D'deridex with the Avatar cause if it is, all it does is prove my point that the noroxan is a waste of space

No that is the normal d'deridex.
Norexan is still better, shields wise, than V13, what does that make V13 then?
(with that waste of space thing I was actually talking about Ryans comment in the defiant thread, where he said that the dominion war proved that D'deridexes were basically a waste of space....)

well im too tired to answer everything atm so i'll just answer this one for now:
QUOTE
1 credit, which means u can freely build 20 of them - really a limiting factor isnt it  wink.gif Let me tell you something, if you have enough resources and time to build 20 phalanxes, so u max out your credits, nothing will be able to stop you. And I dont care how many breen battleships your opponent builds....
when you compare that for an almost unlimited number of breen battleships (a more than likely prospect).... tongue.gif
plus if that is the case then the phalanx is hardly its closest match.
i'll respond to the rest a bit later.

LoL u havent been playin MP much have you? If you get together 16 breen battleships in MP you can be a VERY happy camper. Now you talk about this unlimited crap lol. You are NEVER going to get more than 20 breen battleships at 1 time, except if both of you are bunkering. 20 is more than enough Phalanxes to own, trust me :S
And phalanx would beat the breen battleship... dont doubt that.

well, you'r preety much right on everything, the dominion don't have good battleships, but they have the capability to mass destroyers and use them as torpedo bait during combat. They also should become stronger with the introduction of a new battleship, but they will still lack middle class ships, but i think that won't be a problem.

[QUOTE]

Yah I think one would be able to cover the lack of middleships with bugs/bombers and V13s. Its hard tho...

posted on September 8th, 2006, 11:05 pm

Another prblem is: You will never come to the point building breen battleships. if you do so..you opponet will overrun you with masses of smaller ships. you would have constructed 3 battleships ...raped.. dead...DELETED!

posted on September 9th, 2006, 1:13 am

Not always the case depends on teh map

for example on eraudi u can easily spam bugs and still make the Breen Battleships

[Optec]

posted on September 9th, 2006, 1:25 am

Last edited by Optec on September 9th, 2006, 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

the construction times of destroyers and cruisers have been adjusted to make the higher levels of the tech tree - so basically battlecruisers, 2nd support vessels and battleships - more attractive to be included into personal armies

posted on September 9th, 2006, 2:23 am

Not always the case depends on teh map

for example on eraudi u can easily spam bugs and still make the Breen Battleships

well its your opponents fault if he allows this. Also note that the breen have a VERY long con time and to build 16 of them and also produce bugs would take a long, long time.
As Ive been saying the whole time, and as Jan has now said it too, you simply wont get to build that many in order to make a difference in a game.

posted on September 9th, 2006, 12:44 pm

well its your opponents fault if he allows this. Also note that the breen have a VERY long con time and to build 16 of them and also produce bugs would take a long, long time.
As Ive been saying the whole time, and as Jan has now said it too, you simply wont get to build that many in order to make a difference in a game.

well i that case there is very little point in them being there, so all of this rebalancing that some people would want would be of little consequence to you

posted on September 9th, 2006, 1:03 pm

haha lol

posted on September 9th, 2006, 2:14 pm

QUOTE (-=B!G=-The Black Baron @ Sep 9 2006, 03:23 AM)

well its your opponents fault if he allows this. Also note that the breen have a VERY long con time and to build 16 of them and also produce bugs would take a long, long time.
As Ive been saying the whole time, and as Jan has now said it too, you simply wont get to build that many in order to make a difference in a game.

well i that case there is very little point in them being there, so all of this rebalancing that some people would want would be of little consequence to you wacko.gif

Yeah than I shouldnt even have the opportunity to be able to build them, of course. Only give the Dominion bugs and let them survive of them- hopefully that would make you happy.
Let me tell you something, if we are speaking about canonness then fine the breen ships shouldnt be that strong BUT FO is using a MADE UP ship class, which is currently using the frigates model (as Optec explained b4). So who r u to say that the Breen battleship wouldnt be so strong?
Also considering what the current situation on the Dominion is, they are great at massing destroyers, have ****** cruisers and below-average battleship (not avatar units). So if u **** up the 1 thing they have going for them in battleships, u eliminate any other options for them to fight on equal terms than the destroyer spam. Dont u think thats a little 1-dimensional?
A lot of people dont like the Dominion now cause they are kind of hard to play with, since they have 3 main resources compared to other races 2. Take this away too and then its just better to make them a NPR.

Not a lot of people would like this rebalancing there is only u and 4of11 I can remember right now, with everyone else who think racionally know that BB's arent unbalanced. Let me just think of the rebalancing u want to do in FO:
-make the Breen Battleship crap
-make Akira a god ship
-make Galaxy stronger (with pdp back)

Im sure in a couple of weeks u're gonna open a thread to making the sovie stronger
Does anyone else smell favorism here? You only want your precious Federation to be god-like with no regards to balancing or other races.

Now I like u, I always thought of you as a rational person on this forums but these last your comments are really starting to p|ss me off cause u're simply ignoring what everyone is telling you. I never said that Breen Battleships make NO difference in a game, I just said that they are not the difference makers like Defiants for instance or even your precious Akiras (who more and more people are swarming). The BB's are a good edition to a fleet, but they are far to expensive to be massable, same goes for sovies and NeghVars.

Now please try to reply to all of my points and not just in a sentance like u did b4. ex. if you dont use them, they wont effect u As that is not what Im saying.

[Skitzeh]

posted on September 9th, 2006, 2:42 pm

Last edited by Skitzeh on September 9th, 2006, 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

too many people come on here complaining about balancing when its down to player skill differences... one of the facts of human nature is that its too easy to blame overpowered ships rather than accepting that you got beat because you wernt the best player.

imo, get over it, if you lose then you lose because you didnt play well enough, if you start believing otherwise you'll never be satisfied with anything.

[Cpt Ryan]

posted on September 9th, 2006, 7:24 pm

Last edited by Cpt Ryan on September 9th, 2006, 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lol, oh man now here comes the irational attack now your back is to the wall ,
when have i said anything about making the akira a god ship? i simply said make its special weapon offensive to fit in with the akiras design philosophy. the galaxy stronger? yes but it was not me who said anything about the pdp.

Im sure in a couple of weeks u're gonna open a thread to making the sovie stronger  
Does anyone else smell favorism here? You only want your precious Federation to be god-like with no regards to balancing or other races.

actually the klingons (martok avatar) is my favourite

you keep talking about the longest construction time, as if that is not going to be lowered in acordance with strength i thought it was common knowledge that you should lower a units build time if its made weaker

Now I like u, I always thought of you as a rational person on this forums but these last your comments are really starting to p|ss me off cause u're simply ignoring what everyone is telling you. I never said that Breen Battleships make NO difference in a game, I just said that they are not the difference makers like Defiants for instance or even your precious Akiras (who more and more people are swarming). The BB's are a good edition to a fleet, but they are far to expensive to be massable, same goes for sovies and NeghVars.

the defiants have been disected for balancing as have the akira's multiple times (and still ongoing i believe) as are a lot of things these past couple of days, now it is something to do with the dominion you dont like it, perhaps the favouritism is on your part.

Now please try to reply to all of my points and not just in a sentance like u did b4. ex. if you dont use them, they wont effect u    As that is not what Im saying.

if you notice i quoted your entire post, what more do you need if i can just reply to it with what i said .
if your referring to earlier when i said i was too tired to answer everthing just then thats really the reason, i work shifts (pay is good but the hours are crap), having to work some nights or some days, inevitably you will have to do 2 shifts back to back. what can i say i was knackered :wheelchair: my bad

@skitz, doesnt always work like that, otherwise why do most complain about the massing of certain classes?

[Acidpunk]

posted on September 9th, 2006, 8:52 pm

Last edited by Acidpunk on September 9th, 2006, 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hold on a second when have i been biast for the federation thats just a plain lie

I want the Vorcha increased a bit to justify its cost and i also want the negvar given cloak cause that really ****** me off alot

and i said i wanted the S2 increased to fit the cruiser role so dont tell me im being biased for the feds thats just a simple lie

but as it stands u cant complain that the ship takes too long to build if its ridiculously Uber

and to prove i dont love the feds i was the one complaining about the defiant

posted on September 10th, 2006, 4:29 am

Hold on a second when have i been biast for the federation thats just a plain lie

I want the Vorcha increased a bit to justify its cost and i also want the negvar given cloak cause that really ****** me off alot

and i said i wanted the S2 increased to fit the cruiser role so dont tell me im being biased for the feds thats just a simple lie

but as it stands u cant complain that the ship takes too long to build if its ridiculously Uber

and to prove i dont love the feds i was the one complaining about the defiant

I was talking about Ryan being biased.... And you were in favor of nerfing the BB's
Sorry if I didnt put it right.




Ryan: Look basically your whole argument about the BB has been that its not canon. Optec explained the situation to you, so that should be the the end of it.
I have added to that points which actually prove the dominion could really use another battleship(now they have only 2, avatars included!. When compared to feds - 5, klingons- 1(or 3 depends where u put vupta and luspet and they have VERY powerful cruisers) and roms - 5)
And that the BB is not unbalanced, others have confirmed this as well. The long buildtime is just another argument that u cant really mass them, same goes for high resource cost (24 supplies! much more for prototype). Massing BB's is basically the same as massing Sovies and u know damn well that wont work They simply cost too much and take too long to build. Or as Jan graphically described u build 4 and then a swarm of destroyers came and your eliminated

I know what u mean by wanting to make the BB weaker, simply because its canon. But since this ship was not in the shows u cannot say if its canon or not. Also you cannot have everything canon lol, simply because the feds would be unbeatable then cause every show/movie was made from their standpoint and they did not loose in any of them. Also if you really want canon I would argue that I want a canon 4,5km long dreadnought in my fleet in v3 and u know as well as me that that simply wont happen lol -same applies to the cube

It seems we are just looking from a different point of view, with you more focused on the canonness and me on the actual balancing in the game. For me balancing is more important because this is a MP mod first and foremost. So it seems we are never going to agree on it lol, u do have to admit tho that FO is about MP playability and all races should be equal there lol
Now Ive explained my point here over and over again and if any of you still dont get it, then Im sorry but Im not going to explain myself again lol.

BTW: Im sorry I said u're favoriting the feds, but I was just really p|ssed at that moment and couldnt control myself really
I dont see how my back is against the wall tho, as all of my points are yet to be disproven.

posted on September 10th, 2006, 12:53 pm

well actually if it was cannon 5 bops can take out anything lol

look to be honest with the Breen Battleship if they get another mid level ship then it should be nerfed until then its fine as it is

posted on September 10th, 2006, 2:14 pm

baron i know things must stay as they are for the moment, (subtle hint at the end of my first post in thread ) im simply saying that i want this "battleship" downgraded when there is something to replace it (dread). I know optec has explained that it is their design (so be it) BUT my arguement is they are using the frigate model from the series for the battleship and something else for the frigate . Plus put yourself in the Breen position, why would you contribute Battleships more than capable of whipping anything the dominion have to throw against you, for an alliance your not even equal partners in? I cant be the only one here who finds that hard to swallow.

And how was i being biased? and to what? I also have argued in favour of rebalancing the defiant and other aspects of the feds. I dont even like playing as the feds anymore because of that. As said my favourite is the martok avatar (love the sus'a ).