starting with 2 scouts

posted on December 15th, 2010, 12:02 am

In the thread on proxy yard balance someone mentioned scouting solves the proxy yard issue. but as another poster pointed out many people have their scout watching the enemy base to find out what ship they're building,etc.

what if we started with 2 scouts instead of 1? obviously the lower the power of the scouts, say halve their firepower so 2 borg scouts can't go raiding at the start.

This would also mean that a player who doesnt know a map can still send a scout to the enemy base and go find all the expansions near their own base. no more need to choose. I haven't been able to think of a downside to doing this as long as the firepower is scaled down (who besides the borg attack stuff with their scout anyway?) .

posted on December 15th, 2010, 12:04 am

Downside is... the second free scout. For Romulans and Klingons that means you likely never have to build another scout, and in addition, Romulans won't have to choose to make one into a cloak detector (and it'll be 'cheaper').

Incidentally, Klingon scouts can go hunting and be an annoyance

posted on December 15th, 2010, 2:07 am

Maybe only some races could get two scouts? If the Borg can get only one constructor, maybe not every race should get the same number of free scouts. (Romulas and Klingons get one for free, since they have cloaking, while noncloakers get two (maybe Borg only get one if it throws balance off.))

posted on December 15th, 2010, 2:20 am

An extra scout would suit the Federation, an exploration-themed empire would have more ships that svout space.

posted on December 15th, 2010, 3:46 am

Maybe it can be a Third Avatar bonus.  Mayson gets his defensive values upped, Risner gets her offensive values upped, the third gets an extra scout.

posted on December 15th, 2010, 3:50 am

that would be kind of a handicap

posted on December 15th, 2010, 3:56 am

What if I reverse your request and suggest staring out with no scouts? That way the player would have to choose to invest in scouting if they wanted instead of that decision being made for him/her.

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on December 15th, 2010, 4:01 am

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on December 15th, 2010, 4:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

No starting scouts might be interesting for Borg, they are the overconfidence faction after all.

Maybe it can be a Third Avatar bonus.  Mayson gets his defensive values upped, Risner gets her offensive values upped, the third gets an extra scout.

that would be kind of a handicap

Exactly, one extra scout is barely any help when they are dirt cheap and have basically no offense. Two scouts at start would be better off for all Fed avatars and maybe an avatar of a cloaking race (Romulan with a prebuilt talon refit anyone?)

posted on December 15th, 2010, 4:03 am

Starting with no scouts would totally screw up about 30% of the build orders possible at the moment, and deal a hard blow to at least another 20%.

posted on December 15th, 2010, 4:05 am

It could work if the Borg redo gave them cheaper, fast-building scouts and/or the Probe and/or Scoutcube could get some improvements.

posted on December 15th, 2010, 4:12 am

You misunderstood me - I mean 30% of all builds in Fleet Ops.

The only way to change something so fundamental would be to completely change how Fleet Ops gameplay works.

posted on December 15th, 2010, 9:02 am

the fed scout has good decloak, so two free scouts would mean they get lots of good decloak very early.

posted on December 15th, 2010, 4:46 pm

Downside is... the second free scout. For Romulans and Klingons that means you likely never have to build another scout, and in addition, Romulans won't have to choose to make one into a cloak detector (and it'll be 'cheaper').

Incidentally, Klingon scouts can go hunting and be an annoyance

i already said to halve the firepower of the scout, so 2 scouts firepower == current firepower of one scout.


as for not having to build a second scout... its not 'cheaper' if your opponent gets it too.
as for potential balance issues....
roms will have a better chance at finding cloaked ships
klings - this doesnt really give them an edge other than being able to collect more information.
feds have a better chance of catching cloaked ships
dom can drop more sensor relays
borg - this doesnt really give them an edge other than being able to collect more information.

so all races except one would gain an advantage. and its a scout, if your really worried about your opponents scout detecting your cloaked ships why not just kill it? 2 of them doesn't make that impossible.

posted on December 15th, 2010, 4:58 pm

Starting with no scouts would totally screw up about 30% of the build orders possible at the moment, and deal a hard blow to at least another 20%.

Is that such a bad thing?  The build orders will have to change eventually anyway when they redo how proxy yarding works.

I wouldn't mind FO being less about rushing to see what your opponent is building, then building the hard counter to that unit.

posted on December 15th, 2010, 5:07 pm

Im in favor of it being looked into at some point if for no other reason that to make races more diverse.