Stafleet Command Needs Research

posted on May 9th, 2010, 8:12 am

One way or another, warp in will be changed in the Federation redo.  Right now, it's really not too bad, as everyone gets something for free.  The feds get free ships, the Romulans and the klingons get free cloaks, the dominion get free...whoops!   Guess the Dominion don't get anything for free.    Poor dominion.

posted on May 9th, 2010, 8:13 am

Take it easy, Ray .

  Please note that I've already said a number of times that, overall, Feds got leveled MUCH BETTER compared to the other races.  I just still think that the Free ships give them an edge to which there is really little recompense.

 Sure the Klingons can build from many yards:  Drawback?  You have to buy the yards, build them one at a time, spend supplies on them (which you really need to conserve), and then remember that all the early Klingon ships got build time increases.  It all costs ALOT and continues to do so if you lose ships.

 Romulans have great cloak:  Drawback?  They have spendy ships that you really can't afford to lose.  They are expensive and none are all that hard hitting early on.  Leahvals are very good, but Rhienns don't dish out a ton of damage and both Amabassadors and Monsoons take less damage from them.

 Dominion (Puretech) can BLAST out Bugs:  Drawback?  Well I haven't seen much Dominion play against Feds yet, but Bugs/Bombers and C-11 seem to be able to do quite well.

 Borg have the snazzy new mods for the scube and the Dode.  Drawback?  Haven't played much Borg in .2 so I don't know.  Someone else might be able to fill in.


 Point being that all the races have drawbacks.  SFC being move up a station in the tech tree is great.  It forces the warp-ins to come a bit later and avoids the dreaded warp-rush, but the fact that you just start piling up free ships that barely hurt you to lose is a VERY important factor.

  Losing a B'rel is and 86 build time and 11 supplies that you can't get back.
  Losing a Rihenn is almost 400 di that's going away.
  Bugs are 26(?) supply each now ... early on when you don't have the Ketracels up it's a big deal.
  Each Scube you lose is 10 CC .

  Each Warp-in you lose?  A rank for the enemy (unless they are Borg ).

posted on May 9th, 2010, 10:20 am

Maybe you could have a kind of penalty which rises or falls with the frequency of how often SFC is used...

I can't remember exactly how long it takes for SFC to cycle through but let's say, for the sake of argument, that it takes 240 seconds before you can use it again. Now, you could introduce a kind of trickle resource drain on your dilithium/tritanium which is greatest, if you use it every 240 seconds but eventually reduces to no penalty at a value of a about 640 seconds.

The justification would be that a demanding player would incur greater investment in supply lines from the Federation, while someone who only requests aid now and then would place no strain on the Federation's supply lines.

A rough distribution of costs might work something like this. If I request ships every:
240 seconds - then I incur a drain of: 5.00 D&T per second
260 seconds - then I incur a drain of: 4.75 D&T per second
280 seconds - then I incur a drain of: 4.50 D&T per second
300 seconds - then I incur a drain of: 4.25 D&T per second
320 seconds - then I incur a drain of: 4.00 D&T per second
340 seconds - then I incur a drain of: 3.75 D&T per second
360 seconds - then I incur a drain of: 3.50 D&T per second
380 seconds - then I incur a drain of: 3.25 D&T per second
400 seconds - then I incur a drain of: 3.00 D&T per second
420 seconds - then I incur a drain of: 2.75 D&T per second
440 seconds - then I incur a drain of: 2.50 D&T per second
460 seconds - then I incur a drain of: 2.25 D&T per second
480 seconds - then I incur a drain of: 2.00 D&T per second
500 seconds - then I incur a drain of: 1.75 D&T per second
520 seconds - then I incur a drain of: 1.50 D&T per second
540 seconds - then I incur a drain of: 1.25 D&T per second
560 seconds - then I incur a drain of: 1.00 D&T per second
580 seconds - then I incur a drain of: 0.75 D&T per second
600 seconds - then I incur a drain of: 0.50 D&T per second
620 seconds - then I incur a drain of: 0.25 D&T per second
640 seconds - then I incur a drain of: 0.00 D&T per second

I'd imagine this would give a Fed player the option of using SFC at it's maximum rate, with a compromise for rising costs, whereas if you use SFC conservatively, then you do not overstep the bounds of Federation Supply lines and incur no cost, at the disadvantage of having fewer ships.

It would work, by calculating the average time you leave between requests and then working out the proportionate cost per second. I think it would be ideal if it also came with an indicator on the Federation UI to show exactly what the cost per second is at any time, to allow a player to work out whether it's worth it, to request fresh ships. It could be recalculated every 10 seconds or so and updated on the UI.

Advantages -
1. If used conservatively, a skillful player will find an optimum request time which balances resource drains against the need for ships.
2. If used conservatively, ships could still be gained at a vastly discounted or zero cost.

Disadvantages -
1. If SFC is used too heavily, for too long, then the cost incurred could rise above the actual value of the ships.
2. Obviously, the resource drain would be a hit, which would need to be managed by the player.


In terms of balancing, this would likely need to be run in for a while to see how it plays out but there are experienced Fed players who could better inform on what the numbers should be. Bear in mind that I have suggested that the penalty be directly proportional to the time between requests but you could make it an uneven distribution as well and further fine tune how it works...

posted on May 9th, 2010, 11:17 am

Penalties are already being designed. They've probably already been planned out, just need to be added.

posted on May 9th, 2010, 2:44 pm

Indeed Tyler is correct Penalties for the Warp-In just required coding which wasn't complete for 3.1.2 - just as the Intelligence Center is getting changes that haven't been able to make it in yet. If you lose a ship, Starfleet isn't exactly going to sit by and say "sure, just keep blowing our best commanders away".

[ray320]

posted on May 9th, 2010, 5:55 pm

Last edited by ray320 on May 9th, 2010, 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I really dont like that idea, you cant put on penalties for feds and expect it to balance it out.  Thats my whole point, when warp in isn't used as an early game kill everyone as fast as you can get it spam, it is a big part of the normal early game, so what you would be doing if you made it cost, is it could hurt the early game more, and would affect the rest of the game, i mean beyond warp in what do feds really have that make them special? hmm? it seems like all the other races have something unique, and i fear that feds have just kinda been left behind in the redo department......

also boggz, i think everyone here is taking it pretty easy, you want to see threads where people wernt taking it easy? then look at this ://www.fleetops.net/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,3/topic,4272.0/

also, id still like to remind people, that the vote was 40-35, 40 in favor of saucer seperation, and 35 in not, however in total 51-24 wanted some sort of change.

Anyway back on topic, all i fear for is that the federation is balanced, and that it still has somthing they can use efectively

[Arash8472]

posted on May 9th, 2010, 6:30 pm

Last edited by Arash8472 on May 9th, 2010, 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sabers - they are strong against klingon brels ( idk about other small ships )

monsoon - strong defense against long range, vet strong defense against everything

intrepid - fast, has torpedoes, has phasers, and hit and run with special

akira - shield/hull regeneration  has torpedo and phaser combo

canaveral - sensor blackout

nova - increase in torpedo fire

btw, 3.1.2 is the age of who can fire torpedoes more



Don't forget Remore!!  Their first special eats shields with 1 or 2 hits depending on the ship type! a few of them can take a starbase shields down to 0


is the federation ships balaced yes, does SFC need to be removed or have a redo yes.

posted on May 9th, 2010, 6:36 pm

you can put on penalties for feds and expect it to balance it out.  Thats my whole point

Thanks for agreeing with us, Ray!

posted on May 9th, 2010, 7:13 pm

I meant cant,

All i am is worried about the feds, i feel there early game, isnt so hot, i just never got the sense that sabers and moonsoons cut it early game, however if there is a way, id love to relearn feds

posted on May 9th, 2010, 7:15 pm

If they don't cut it, try using them differently.

posted on May 9th, 2010, 7:49 pm

If they don't cut it, try using them differently.

That isn't actually a good reason... and actually can't be used against the other side... If you don't cut it against SFC, try using a different tactic...

posted on May 9th, 2010, 7:54 pm

What does the Sabre and Monsson 'not cutting it' have to do with the SFC?

posted on May 9th, 2010, 8:13 pm

If you don't cut it against SFC, try using a different tactic...

Such as???

Also i have seen moonsoons used to great effecency but im not good with them so i skip them for intrepids. (well it works ok in singleplayer)

posted on May 9th, 2010, 8:27 pm

yep, if you are looking for big guns and high damage per second values, the Federation is not the side for you try using Klingons instead, or the Dominion.
If you favor to combine ships, have durable and reliable ships, the Federation will fit your needs. We will introduce more features to emphasize this faction-character in future patches

posted on May 9th, 2010, 8:51 pm

Yes i like durable ships, all im saying, is that it seems to me like the feds need sfc in order to survive in the earlier game, that is all,