Stafleet Command Needs Research

posted on May 7th, 2010, 7:55 pm

i think SFC needs some sort of research that takes 10 min to research free or buy - cuz right now in this patch federation are able to build very large fleets very quickly compared to the other races, basically they out-produce other races 3:1


*tell you the truth i think that in 3.1.1 the federation ship production was more under control than in this patch; Boom large fleets in first 10 min.*

(i'm a fed/kling player btw)

posted on May 7th, 2010, 7:58 pm

Starfleet Command already needs both research facilities to be built.

posted on May 7th, 2010, 7:59 pm

Yeah im not really sure what the complaint is here... Is it regarding starfleet command or is it regarding normal ship production?

Two very seperate mechanics.

posted on May 7th, 2010, 8:05 pm

Yeah im not really sure what the complaint is here... Is it regarding starfleet command or is it regarding normal ship production?

Two very seperate mechanics.

i'm complaining about both. if you see some of the 3.1.2 vid's federation are able to build Large numbers of ships  in short about of time

posted on May 7th, 2010, 8:06 pm

People haven't yet learned how to use counters in 3.1.2, so I'm not surprised. Federation is far weaker now then in 3.1.1 in fact.

posted on May 7th, 2010, 8:15 pm

i'm complaining about both. if you see some of the 3.1.2 vid's federation are able to build Large numbers of ships  in short about of time

Right.  But you have to remember that in those vids, the federation players had more than 2 moon pairs.  Stardust had 4  moons, which of course means he'll be able to amass a huge fleet.  To be honest, it is much more balanced now, especially with the lack of cloak detection.

posted on May 8th, 2010, 2:28 am

klingons - you need certain stations to get ships pumping out

federation - you need all stations to get ships pumping out

even if you make it so SFC needs 1 of each station in the end player will get them cuz, the player will need those stations later in game


research is the way to go...

posted on May 8th, 2010, 3:24 am

Hmmm, I'm not sure I agree.  Feds got a nerf this last patch.  While I do agree, SFC can call some mighty ships early in the game, learning to counter is half the battle.  If you're having trouble and Dom's guide isn't working for you, try playing a game w/ him if he's available.  He taught me quite a bit....though that was for 3.1.1.  Its a new ball game now!   

posted on May 9th, 2010, 7:04 am

While I'm going to agree that the Feds not only got a nerf from 3.1.1, there are still certain things that allow the Feds to really keep large fleets in the field.


  Excelsiors are indeed better countered by supports (and I think we'll see more of that as the community better learns counters), but they, along with Ambassadors are the two most common warp-ins and incredibly sturdy vessels.  High Density Gens on the Amba + the special, with ADAI and good defense on the Excel make for some serious tankage.

 
  While I agree that the inclusion of Starfleet Engineering as a pre-req does prevent the SUPER early warp-in rush that so many of us hated, I think it didn't completely address the issue of FREE SHIPS in a relatively early stage of the game for fleet-building.
  I say that because, in 1 v 1 on a normal sized map, rushing the SFC generally results in your own doom.  However, in a team game, rushing the SFC is much more viable and doesn't really take MUCH longer than it did before.  Granted you will be with a few ships, but it's not so long that you are going to be crippled in a team game.  Thus you've still got the 10+ Free ships within the next 10 minutes.
  Part of that power still comes from:

The fact that it costs nothing when Romulan ships are still overall expensive, Klingon Supply is a HUGE liability, and Dominion ships tend to be weaker in the defense department.  Bottom line: free ships are free ships.

  Big question:  Do the Feds NEED the free ships in order to retain their balance?  Would they be a competent and capable faction without it? 

posted on May 9th, 2010, 7:14 am

Heres what i got to say, now even tho i can only play borg, im way familiar with fed, and all i got to say, is if your trying to say that the feds are overpowered, or that you are loosing because the feds get warp-in to early, then what the heck are you doing, first off they have to build two stations to even get it, and then the warp in station, and if they were smart at all, they would have built mining as well, so you have plenty of time to get a fleet up, in this patch, the feds have even less power then before, all you need to do is learn how to play a little better, because hones this feds are too strong crap is kinda old, honestly after they got rid of the norway nuke, they havent really been the strongest, kligons have the most power now if anybody,  feds dont need to keep on getting taken down, if anything, i think their early game needs to be balanced and reajusted just as far as like the saber and moonsoon, as does there late game, but thats all that needs to happen nothing more, we dont need to try to make them weaker hear, otherwise what were gonna have is any race who plays feds will win

posted on May 9th, 2010, 7:20 am

A certain thing can be unbalanced without the entire race being unbalanced, Ray .

  The feds are WAY more balanced compared to the other races now.  Part of that is because cloak > non-cloak right now.  One might say that the free ships makes up a great deal for the fact that they have no cloaking, but I still find that the 10 free ships is a relic of older patches that has yet to be fully addressed.

  The extra tech needed is a great step in the right direction! .  But it's not entirely fixed yet.  A team game can have the first tech be warp-in and it doesn't take THAT long . 

  Seems you should also be careful about expressing a strong opinion like that when you begin your post with "now even tho i can only play borg".  Try playing as or against some Feds in a team game.  Wait for that double-warp-in.  See if you can STOP them from doing it.  Sure they might not be able to expand and sure they might be slowed down at the start a bit ... but they can still turret up their main and wait a short time to get the SFC so they've got the most efficient flow of free shit coming in .

[Selor Kiith]

posted on May 9th, 2010, 7:31 am

Last edited by Selor Kiith on May 9th, 2010, 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sure why not... make a research that lasts at least 10 mins. on top of the prerequisite of needing a lot of stations... and don't forget the price for it... it has to be high enough that you can't just pump it out in early game...
Late-Mid Game to Early-Late Game should be alright... and associate a good cost (Eraudi-style prices) for the ships... I mean you need to support them...
No more free ships... no more free warp-ins... no more problems...
I never liked it to be a viable tactic... it should be only a nice addition... like having a golden tie pin...

Edit: But I want Cloak to be an installable Module (borg Like) too... it's too much of an advantage...

posted on May 9th, 2010, 7:45 am

Boggz i have played as feds,  ive played against feds, ive used warpin

if somone went to rush straight to warp-in yeah they could have it in like 3 minutes or whatever, but you should by that point have some ships, and be able to hold them off, while they die because of there economy, the main reason im against doing anything about making warp in cost anything is because the other races all have somthing for them

well at least romulans and kligons do, honestly, those to races have an advantage from the start, they have all the intel in the world, and they can easily, especially as kligons assemble a large fleet quickly and do cloak attacks, and also, because they can cloak, they immediately have a small economy leg up, because if you want to counter the surprise and intelligance advantage they have, you need to spend money on sensor platforms, and 250 dilithium per ping, i mean really? and you want to argue that the feds warp in is so powerful, its like a cloak, why not make a big deal out of cloak, why do you automatically have cloak, why doesnt that take time to get?

and if you want to make warp in ships cost money, then jeez, i wont even get it, im not gonna pay money for a collection of (awesome!!!!) yet not very powerful ships, ill go with my akira so you need to give feds somthing if your gonna mess with warpin, honestly warp in is only really useful in the early- maybe mid game, so you make it take a longer time to get, and it wont do anything, i reguard the fed early game not so hot, unless you can warp in, because sabers and moonsoons dont seem to match up to the other races early game stuff....

posted on May 9th, 2010, 7:55 am

3 mins into the game you cant really have more than destroyers and they can warpin cruisers and battleships thats why warpin is over powered. If they warpin to you expansion they can ignore whatever defense you mount and just focus on you miners. Also the fed warpin is useful throughout the entire game,  if you dont believe me try decommissioning all your warpin ships 15 min into the game. And its very easy to counter cloak in fact its already been nurfed.

[Tyler]

posted on May 9th, 2010, 8:01 am

Last edited by Tyler on May 9th, 2010, 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

I can see this going back to the 'buy Warp-In ships' idea soon.

They're already working on penatlties to discourage excessive Warp-In abuse.