Shroud of War

posted on November 16th, 2010, 7:21 pm

Would it be possible to make the default game mode "shroud off, fog on" (instead of "shroud on, fog on")?  It's a minor issue, but I've seen situations recently where new players were frustrated because they don't have the maps memorized and thus don't know where all the expansions are.

This really only affects new players, because more experienced ones would (probably) know the maps better, but I don't see any reason not to implement it.

posted on November 16th, 2010, 7:26 pm

Why not just save a default for that? 

posted on November 16th, 2010, 7:30 pm

Why not just save a default for that? 

...I completely forgot that that was possible.  But it's an issue in games other than the ones I host, too.

posted on November 16th, 2010, 10:41 pm

If they did that, then the people who prefer shroud and fog on will be requesting that THAT be set to default... or those that prefer shroud and fog off, would be requesting THAT...

It seems to be just a matter of preference, and only takes a couple of clicks to set it yourself anyway.

posted on November 16th, 2010, 10:53 pm

But I don't think there are any people who would prefer shroud being on over off.  It only takes a few clicks, but new players are likely to not host their own games and so they run into this problem a lot.

posted on November 17th, 2010, 1:50 pm

There is a visible map before the game. Thats enough imo

posted on November 17th, 2010, 4:53 pm

There is a visible map before the game. Thats enough imo

So when you were new to the game, you never had any difficulty remembering where the closest expansion to your starting base was, or where the enemy's expansion would probably be?  It can be difficult to remember, especially because new players often don't think about it until the game starts (when it's too late).

This is basically something to help new players.  I don't think it would have much of an effect (if any) on more experienced players.

posted on November 18th, 2010, 8:10 pm

So when you were new to the game, you never had any difficulty remembering where the closest expansion to your starting base was, or where the enemy's expansion would probably be?  It can be difficult to remember, especially because new players often don't think about it until the game starts (when it's too late).

Actually, since the very begining I've always had them both ON. I've never had them off, even when I first played it. It's an important part of the game. You have to explore. IMO you shouldn't even see the map beforehand, you should make do with what you can find by SCOUTING, that's why we have scout ships ;-)

This is basically something to help new players.  I don't think it would have much of an effect (if any) on more experienced players.

It would have NO effect on ANY players, aside from those too lazy to click a button a couple of times. The new players can help THEMSELVES by paying attention to the buttons and choosing for themselves what they want. But remember, you are turning off a feature/requirement (scouting), so I believe it should be left on by default.

posted on November 18th, 2010, 10:18 pm

Uh, in my experience scouting to see what the map looks like is one of the least important parts of FO.  Experienced players have an inherent advantage over new players because they know where the expansions are, and new players don't (not that that is their only advantage).

posted on November 23rd, 2010, 7:27 pm

yeah if you observe people who have been here long enough to know the maps.... they dont basically don't scout much.

if they're a cloaked race they go check out their enemies then put their scout in the enemy base.

non-cloakers go hang out near the enemies shipyard and see what they're building.

posted on November 23rd, 2010, 9:36 pm

So what's the point in the shroud at all then? Go tell Activision; they seem to think scouting is important.

Being used to a map is an advantage anyway, even if you can see the map. Experienced players have an advantage over newbies anyway, for millions of little reasons. Changing this one thing is going to have a TINY effect on that. Worth it, for removal of something that some people DO think is an important factor of the game (scouting)? No.

posted on November 23rd, 2010, 10:13 pm

I don't think that Activision thought that scouting was a major part of the game.  If they did, they would have added more of a reason to do it.

Yeah, being used to the map is an advantage.  This would change that a bit.  Changing this would make new players do a bit better online, and while that wouldn't be a huge difference I don't see any reasons not do do it, because scouting is not a major part of the game.

For the people (if there are any) that love scouting, they can change it to turn shroud of war back on anyway.  But I think most players wouldn't oppose this, and it would make things a bit easier for new players.

posted on November 23rd, 2010, 10:35 pm

On the contrary, I find scouting to be extremely important - if you don't know where fleets are, what your opponent is building, where he or she is weak, you are good as dead.

I also think that a vast majority of players would not care for having to change the default settings to something only a small subset of gamers use. Every game I've played in, other than for testing purposes, has used shroud and fog off, and I can't think of hearing any complaints except from the very newest of players in 1v1 matches. At that point, when those variables are changed, the new guy does even worse because now the older player doesn't even have to scout in the slightest, and already knows exactly where to attack 

[Ruanek]

posted on November 24th, 2010, 12:49 am

Last edited by Ruanek on November 24th, 2010, 2:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

I didn't mean scouting in that sense - that is certainly important.  Atlantis is talking about scouting just to see what the map looks like.  That isn't important in A2 or FO, especially when a lot of the players have the maps memorized before the game even starts.

Yeah, there generally aren't complaints for shroud of war being on except from new players.  But would it being off cause complaints?  My point here is that it would help newer players without hurting experienced players.  The older players will generally already know where the expansions are, so having them show up on the map wouldn't change anything for them.  Newer players would benefit from seeing them on the map.

It only helps a small subset of players, but it doesn't hurt anyone.  I don't see any reason not to do it.


Edit: Are there any experienced players here who would dislike this change being done (shroud of war being off by default)?

posted on November 24th, 2010, 2:25 am

speaking as a new player you can't have your scout run around the map to find everything and scout the enemy at the same time... it just doesn't work.

you need to know whats being built at a shipyard within 1 minute of game start so unless you build a second scout you need to be at that base first.


the issue is only compounded on maps with lots of expansions, if you lose your scout and dont know the map you won't even know how many or where they are. if you've memorized the map you already know and losing a scout doesn't hurt you as much.

in short yes it seems like a minor thing , but why not help your new players have an easier time. its not like having shroud off will make them op.