ship 'buying' system

posted on August 30th, 2009, 5:57 pm

when U queue a ship U dont pay res for it until it starts constructing. i want it to be so that U pay for every ship U put in the quere. so when U click on a romulan shipyard and hit 'h' 3 times U pay for 3 rhienns.

Yes I am not sure about this either, but what if instead of paying for a ship to construct, you pay for it when it is finished constructing. If you dont pay for it it wont come out of the yard and you can cancel it and get all your resoutrces back? That might solve your problem here tom, and also you wouldnt lose resources if your opponent destroys your yard bf a ship is completed

posted on August 30th, 2009, 6:04 pm

when U queue a ship U dont pay res for it until it starts constructing. i want it to be so that U pay for every ship U put in the quere. so when U click on a romulan shipyard and hit 'h' 3 times U pay for 3 rhienns.

this would mean great loss of resources if u forget or didn't cancel them in time
before loosing that shipyard...

i think i understand what is ment and if i'm correct if the shipyard is destroyed or a ship is cancelled u would get those resources back like you would if you cancel a ship before its finished being built. this idea is good as you then wount have to worry bout resources for that que. however in a negative way means that you can tjust fill a que and leave it to build wen it can while your co-ordinating  attacks.

i'd like a system more in-line with galactic civilisations 2 were u can pay higher costs to get ships quicker or pay lower costs to get ships lower.

that way if u have enuf resources then u can get ships quickly but u can still get ships if your running low but they wud take longer (high cost for emergancies or while getting ready for invasion but low cost wen exploring)

posted on August 30th, 2009, 9:31 pm

Why not just immediately pay for the ship as soon as you click on its avatar. Then the ship would start to build. If there was a line, the ships in the line would already have been paid for, and you could just wait for them to finish.

[tom]

posted on August 30th, 2009, 10:12 pm

Last edited by tom on August 30th, 2009, 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

i said nothing about shipyard being destroyed. this is a matter of implementation whatever u get ur res back if it does get destroyed and has nothing to do with this idea.

Yes I am not sure about this either, but what if instead of paying for a ship to construct, you pay for it when it is finished constructing. If you dont pay for it it wont come out of the yard and you can cancel it and get all your resoutrces back? That might solve your problem here tom, and also you wouldnt lose resources if your opponent destroys your yard bf a ship is completed

this doesn't do it. it still doesn't let me keep track of my economy. i would like a system where u click and pay not pay whenever something finishes and u have no idea when that is so ur res disappear on some 'random' events

I can't really say I like this implementation... that would mean that essentially you'd have to keep an even closer eye out for your shipyards than you do now, because otherwise you'd never be able to queue up bigger ships if you didn't have any resources. In fact, since I try to never stock up on dilithium or tritanium, I would be perpetually unable to build more than one ship at a time from a shipyard... would be quite tedious no?

i dont understand what U mean. the implementation i'm talking about is like the starcraft's one (i can feel flaming coming after writing 'starcraft' ) or dow 1/2 and many other rts games i played for that matter. in those i could estimate if i could afford another production facility running by watching res counters. if they grew (i was starting to float res) and all my facilities were producing units i could tell i can afford one more. in FO i cant tell cuz my next 2 battleships may end in 5 sec eating 1500d/500t.

posted on August 30th, 2009, 10:55 pm

See, I don't really think that solves the problem you believe is occurring.

The queue system in Starcraft was much smaller, and the difference in ship costs much smaller then in FO (in other games the resource cost differences are also usually smaller). In other words, even if you pay for ships in advance by putting them in the queue, it doesn't help you determine when you need another shipyard, because you can queue up to 10 vessels... . You'd probably end up with every shipyard having only 1-3 units in queue.... I think that would be rather tedious. Can you imagine that for Klingons though? Expanding probably would be even more of a nightmare than it is now unless some sort of "halt construction" button gave you back all your resources without destroying your queue...

Like I said before, with this implementation you'd have to watch your shipyards very closely, to make sure that not only is the one shipyard that stopped producing is now producing vessels, but that you have to cancel all little ship production if you want to build a bigger much more expensive vessel earlier, not to mention to do research ...

posted on August 31st, 2009, 1:30 am

This would slow you down and give other faster ship building races an advantage. The point of the que system is so that you dont have to constantly go back and forth clicking through yards every time you want to build 1 ship. this would be disasterous in the beggining. You would have to wait to have all the resourcesto build your ships, then wait for it to construct.  By paying for one ship at a time you can gather resources in the ammount of time it takes to construct and be ready for the next. I do not see how this in any possible way could help you for building mining. In fact it would do the oposite. You say you dont like having to search through all the yards, but this would make you have to do that even more. There is no way you are allways gonna have enough rtime and resources to purchase an entire que and would have to build 1 ship at a time. 

posted on August 31st, 2009, 5:14 am

  Both systems have advantages and disadvantages. I guess most modern rts use the "buy as you queue" system. Does the "Founders" have any opinion on this ?

posted on August 31st, 2009, 2:28 pm

@Dominus_Noctis: it would solve the problem i have im pretty sure of it . queuing up to 10 vessels means paying for 10 vessels when in fact only one is constructing, which is a bad idea. i dont see how it would be a nightmare. "i have 350dil/300t. i click on a constructor near my exp, wait a few sec and click to build expansion. after 15 sec i have lets say 700d/300t i click on a yard, wait a few sec and start producing vorcha, i'm down to 50d/100t again, and so on". what i have now is "i click on a constuctor and b'rel pops out of a ship yard so i'm down to 100d/200t. ok then lets see what my opponent is doing with my scout and get back here when i have the res. after a few sec i'm back having 350d/350t and one more b'rel is out. now this is bad cuz i need that exp. lets delay one brel. i do that get back to build exp with 450d/400t and look a sang was in queue and just ate all my res. now i'm pissed and i dont want to play any more ". nice story , isnt it?

@funnystuffpictures:yes, U got it right. it all comes down to micro. if u lack micro u can queue ships but if u have good micro u can build one at a time. normally when u hear a sound that a new ship has been build (there is also something wrong with that as sometimes it doesnt work ) u hit space bar, click on a ship, send it where its needed and start to build another one. i find it v annoying that my res disappear from time to time without me doing something directly (i'm doing this indirectly by setting up a queue)

i guess a solution for me is to build a ship one at a time and stop using queue. thx for ur comments guys.

btw is there any chance the sound effect when a ship has been build can be there EVERY time cuz now i think it is not?

posted on August 31st, 2009, 5:28 pm

Your temporary fix seems to solve your issue just fine I think, as either way you wouldn't queue up more than 1-2 ships per yard.

If it was switched, when you decide you suddenly want to produce a Tavara or research a technology and don't have enough resources you'd have to delete ALL your queues. Sounds very painful. 

posted on August 31st, 2009, 7:25 pm

If it was switched, when you decide you suddenly want to produce a Tavara or research a technology and don't have enough resources you'd have to delete ALL your queues. Sounds very painful. 

U delete one ship and get res for it so no need to delete all queues. i use queues in other rts games simply cuz i dont have 300apm micro . just wanted to see what the community thinks about it.

posted on August 31st, 2009, 7:27 pm

If you don't want a queue to screw your building plans, use the queue delay at the Yards (which one depending on the kind of delay needed).

The 30/60/90 second delays are there for a reason...

posted on August 31st, 2009, 7:59 pm

U delete one ship and get res for it so no need to delete all queues. i use queues in other rts games simply cuz i dont have 300apm micro . just wanted to see what the community thinks about it.

Let me get this straight. Lets say you have four shipyards. Three of them are Staryards, the fourth is a Warbird yard. You have three Shrikes each one queued up at a different yard. You want to build a Tavara, but don't have enough resources. Thus you have to delete each Shrike from each of the other queues until you have enough resources. After that, if you want to build Shrikes again, you have to re-add them to the yards. Oh, and you have to check those yards to make sure that each is producing the same amount of ships as the others, otherwise you are wasting time as you have spent the resources, but the ship is sitting in queue. As I said, sounds very tedious to me, and as Tyler said, the delays have their purpose. I see no evidence that the system you are proposing requires less micromanaging, instead it seems like it has a bunch more actions per minute (as you put it). I hope you see my point... even though I know you don't agree with it 

posted on August 31st, 2009, 8:38 pm

yes dominus i see ur point and system i'm proposing require more micro to be efficient but the system that we have now is just annoying imo . as i said, just wanted to check what the community thinks

posted on August 31st, 2009, 8:56 pm

yes dominus i see ur point and system i'm proposing require more micro to be efficient but the system that we have now is just annoying imo . as i said, just wanted to check what the community thinks

What about people who don't micro as much as others? A more micro-intensive system won't be more efficient for them, it'll be an ingame death sentence...