self destruct

posted on August 24th, 2009, 3:37 pm

I know it's for destroying yours and not theirs, that's why mine causes only minor damage and very short range. You'd have to be sat right on top of it to take any proper damage. Is a damage of 100 and a blast radius of 200-500 spamable with the cost of the ships? Just want to know incase I should change it.

The detonating ships are already marked; they become unselectable and a series of explosions are all over the hull. It isn't much, but it is something.

posted on August 24th, 2009, 3:40 pm

However, having them just spontaneously explode without warning and having large destructive properties (regardless of damage decay) could quite easily be abused.

Like the bug ramming, thats true. Your warnug sign is a good idea. I'd give it a surrounding effect like the hyperspace artilleries, but of course moving with the ship.

An (additional) idea i had, is to have the self destruct need a really long time. e.g. 14 seconds. Only in the first 7 seconds you can stop it, then it will need another 7 till explosion (the long time is needed to guarantee everyone has finished prayers) So it can't be abused hat easily.

posted on August 24th, 2009, 3:43 pm

The delay before explosion should vary by empire. Ones like the Federation and Romulans would have a longer delay so the crew can escape (I know that doesn't matter for the game, but it is realistic), while the Dominion don't really care unless there is a Founder aboard the ship (which is rare in a battlezone). Not sure about the Klingon approach; live to fight another day or defend the ship until the end.

[mimesot]

posted on August 24th, 2009, 3:44 pm

Last edited by mimesot on August 24th, 2009, 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Some additional thing: I want a big (unrealistic) parameter suppressing a too devasting damage at the explosion, because it is logical that self destuct cannot cause more damage than a usual dying explosion (as it is the same antimatter that comes into contact with matter). If any explosion would cause so much damage fleets would eradicate itself too easily. Thus divide the realistic values even by 20 i'd suggest.

This means a damage of 8 photon torpedos for a large vessel withing dogfight range, which it can handle easily. For a small shp at long range the damage is beneath 1/4 photon torpedo then.

Explosions do damage, and they shoud harm your own fleet more than the enemies.

posted on August 24th, 2009, 3:48 pm

Unfortunately the only time I could ever think of Self Destruct being handy would be in the face of the Borg. If it is on every vessel that might change... but if only on a few battleships, how often do you get the chance to capture a Sovereign, Galaxy etc as non-Borg anyway? To spend that much effort in trying to capture such a ship would be quite cruel if the opponent could set the self destruct just before capture. If it were reintroduced, I'd say you have to make a decision when crew remains in the "green" levels, that way you are punished as well (afterall, you could just let the ship keep on fighting till almost the end, then trigger the self destruct). Afterall, sacrificing one's ship should be more of a "you're gonna get punished for that Mr. Kirk" event then just the "oh, I only have 30 out of 150 crew left--let me set auto destruct".

posted on August 24th, 2009, 3:51 pm

I think a penaty when killing an own ship wigh grenn crew would be fine. (at least for feds and rommies)

posted on August 24th, 2009, 3:53 pm

Ah, I meant that that would be the only time you could trigger it  (that in and of itself would be the penalty).

posted on August 24th, 2009, 3:53 pm

I wait until I have about 5 crew left why I usually lose the ship to the Borg anyway. That penalty is almost brutal...

Some additional thing: I want a big (unrealistic) parameter suppressing a too devasting damage at the explosion, because it is logical that self destuct cannot cause more damage than a usual dying explosion (as it is the same antimatter that comes into contact with matter). If any explosion would cause so much damage fleets would eradicate itself too easily. Thus divide the realistic values even by 30 i'd suggest.

Battle destruction usually destroys parts of the ship, Auto Destruct would mix the entire fuel supply (for a Federation Warp core). It think it may have a little more power; when the Enterprise-D's core breached (which is usually how Auto Destruct works), it had a bit more force behind it than any battle death I saw.

Anyway, about my previous question:

Is a damage of 100 and a blast radius of 200-500 spamable with the cost of the ships? Just want to know incase I should change it.

posted on August 24th, 2009, 4:01 pm

I wait until I have about 5 crew left why I usually lose the ship to the Borg anyway. That penalty is almost brutal...

That's the problem though. You waited until 5 crew left. That is unbalanced in and of itself as the Borg tried hard to get your ship, only for you to detonate it right before capture. You lost nothing--they lost a ship. If you want to appease the whole "why green levels: why can't I wait till 5 crew are left", just say that the Bridge crew were the first to be taken out, and thus no more auto-destruct codes are present 
.

Is a damage of 100 and a blast radius of 200-500 spamable with the cost of the ships? Just want to know incase I should change it.

I don't know if it is spammable or balanced--or even wanted. That's up to the Devs to decide I think. I can't honestly remember how much 100 damage is in relation to ships off the top of my head--do you have a comparison? Hmm, how much does Plasma Coil do again to one target?

posted on August 24th, 2009, 4:04 pm

Aah, dominus, now i understand, and I agree!!

Battle destruction usually destroys parts of the ship, Auto Destruct would mix the entire fuel supply (for a Federation Warp core). It think it may have a little more power; when the Enterprise-D's core breached (which is usually how Auto Destruct works), it had a bit more force behind it than any battle death I saw.

What do you think the AM is gonna do after the explosion of a ship huh. Battle destruction usually destroys parts of the ship ... and then the AM tanks steal away heading for the next Black hole disappearing there? Use your brain please. If the stability of the AM in the encapsulement isnt granted what is it gonna do? Turning to pink matter and dissolving into subspace?

Tell me to ignore facts for balancing, i can live with that. But if you are talking about what would happen, please think about it first.

[Tyler]

posted on August 24th, 2009, 4:10 pm

Last edited by Tyler on August 24th, 2009, 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

That's the problem though. You waited until 5 crew left. That is unbalanced in and of itself as the Borg tried hard to get your ship, only for you to detonate it right before capture. You lost nothing--they lost a ship.

That's why I did it, I loved watching the AI go to all that effort (well, it isn't much effort for the Borg really) just to get screwed as the ship exploded while leaving the battlezone.

If you want to appease the whole "why green levels: why can't I wait till 5 crew are left", just say that the Bridge crew were the first to be taken out, and thus no more auto-destruct codes are present 

That's one way to look at it. There were time I just ignored the ship anyway, blowing it up the conventional way later.

I don't know if it is spammable or balanced--or even wanted. That's up to the Devs to decide I think. I can't honestly remember how much 100 damage is in relation to ships off the top of my head--do you have a comparison? Hmm, how much does Plasma Coil do again to one target?

The base damage is 7, I think.

Aah, dominus, now i understand, and I agree!!

What do you think the AM is gonna do after the explosion of a ship huh. Battle destruction usually destroys parts of the ship ... and then the AM tanks steal away heading for the next Black hole disappearing there? Use your brain please. If the stability of the AM in the encapsulement isnt granted what is it gonna do? Turning to pink matter and dissolving into subspace?

Tell me to ignore facts for balancing, i can live with that. But if you are talking about what would happen, please think about it first.

Apparently, the USS Citak and Majestic were destroyed...I didn't see any explosion besides the weapons hitting the Hull. No Core breach or anything, even though the Nacelles were hit on both ships (if anything could cause mass destruction, it's a direct hit to a Nacelle considering what normally happens).

No explosion anywhere on the Defiant when it was killed aside from where the Breen weapons hit, either.

posted on August 24th, 2009, 4:18 pm

Tell me to ignore facts for balancing, i can live with that. But if you are talking about what would happen, please think about it first.

Indeed Mimesot. The sad thing is that Tyler's examples--although in the show and thus "canon"--make absolutely no sense... it is like AM just completely "evaporated". Why can't we have any logic?

That's why I did it, I loved watching the AI go to all that effort (well, it isn't much effort for the Borg really) just to get screwed as the ship exploded while leaving the battlezone.

And that's why the game is balanced for online play. Thank you for proving my point about that effect being unbalanced. 

posted on August 24th, 2009, 4:25 pm

Apparently, the USS Citak and Majestic were destroyed...I didn't see any explosion besides the weapons hitting the Hull. No Core breach or anything, even though the Nacelles were hit on both ships (if anything could cause mass destruction, it's a direct hit to a Nacelle considering what normally happens).

No explosion anywhere on the Defiant when it was killed aside from where the Breen weapons hit, either.

And you are a bilnd man that just copies anything he sees without reflecting it? You wanna implement BS into a marvellous game, even if it is not for sake of balancing or a necessary feature. You dont wanna use your intellect to avoid the mistakes of hecticly working storywriters that are under deadline pressure?

posted on August 24th, 2009, 4:29 pm

Sorry tyler for raising my voice against you, but i'm a little tired of that stubborn oversight.

posted on August 24th, 2009, 4:31 pm

We are verbally mauling each other over an explody weapon that is obviously not gonna happen?