Section 31

posted on March 21st, 2009, 12:40 am

he showed up int eh Sword of Khless episode where Worf and kor reach the Hurq homeworld.
toral was the one who ambushed them. he didnt die in that episode nor in A1.

No way to tell, they never showed what happened to him. His ship was dealt with in A1, though, with no mention of escape pods.

posted on March 21st, 2009, 12:52 am

u may want to tell that to Atlantis abt A1.

the fact that he was in DS9 implied he survived. the only issue remaining then is Toral in A1. I dont remember the end of that mission with the borg, but i lean towards Atlantis' opinion.

posted on March 21st, 2009, 1:09 am

Since Armada 1 isn't canon, it isn't covered by Memory Alpha (execpt in background info, which only says he was 'defeated by Sela.') Even Memory Beta only says he was 'swiftly defeated', they made no mention of if he survived or not.

Memory Alpha says the Borg that Sela tricked eliminated the Klingon base, what are Toral's chances of surviving that?

posted on March 21st, 2009, 1:17 am

Since Armada 1 isn't canon, it isn't covered by Memory Alpha (execpt in background info, which only says he was 'defeated by Sela.') Even Memory Beta only says he was 'swiftly defeated', they made no mention of if he survived or not.

Memory Alpha says the Borg that Sela tricked eliminated the Klingon base, what are Toral's chances of surviving that?

well when speaking of canon, im sure your supposition of "chances" isnt even remotely relevant.
As you said, the canon sources as well as memory-beta leave his fate ambiguous. You may opine that he is dead, but with nothing to back it up - not even in memory-beta -,  it would be presumptuous to argue solely based on your opinion.

matter closed i guess

posted on March 21st, 2009, 2:31 am

well since nothing says he could be alive or dead who knows? we all thought the queen was dead in first contact but yet there she was again in voyager.

posted on March 21st, 2009, 3:22 am

well since nothing says he could be alive or dead who knows? we all thought the queen was dead in first contact but yet there she was again in voyager.

The difference there is that we know she did die, and even saw it in FC.

posted on March 21st, 2009, 3:54 am

Yes she did die in First Contact. but in a nother thread the reason that she reappears is .I cant find the thread but I will paraphrase from memory is: When  a queen is taken off line -IE dies  her Program is uploaded in to a nother Drone who assumes the role  of the new queen. to use an  slightly flawed anology from BSG  the Queen is downloaded in to a new body but she is still the same queen. as for the  question to  what to call the Rouge Borg  3rd avitar  how about  Xenografts(meaning to take tissue from one species and apply it to a nother. Their  prime Directive  would be  Blend the  two imperatives  of Optimize and Assumilate. Thease borg would have free will. But Directives  would include protect the  core brain and(2) destroy all in the path of  seeking True  knollage.

posted on March 21st, 2009, 4:10 am

well ok dead for good, also doesnt she have the same body, that would imply that she was cloned correct?

posted on March 21st, 2009, 4:12 am

well ok dead for good, also doesnt she have the same body, that would imply that she was cloned correct?

I wouldn't be surprised if the Borg dabbling in cloning, I'd certainly imagine they're advanced enough.

posted on March 21st, 2009, 6:13 am

I think they just have a protocol by which they can create her from any member of her species, cloning is a possibility though.

posted on March 21st, 2009, 8:30 am

hey guys, seing as were not talking about section 31, but about borg, why not make the 3rd borg avatar, the indibidual borg, like hue

posted on March 21st, 2009, 8:32 am

I guess, but we'd need a backstory to how they assembled a force worth commenting on.

posted on March 21st, 2009, 1:53 pm

Actually, the Borg Queen didn´t have the same body. Two different actresses played her in FC (Alice Krige) and Voyager (Susanna Thompson, who also played various other parts in Star Trek, like Lenara on ds9). 

posted on March 21st, 2009, 6:11 pm

But alice krige played the queen in endgame, so the same body does get reproduced.