Next Generation Fleet Operations?

posted on June 14th, 2009, 8:18 pm

Okay, I've been pondering this idea for a while. For those that will comment first look at the comment in depth. I have played versions of Armada 2 1.1 where the building thing has been made by 3D boxes instead of 2D sheets. I was thinking fo FO taking it a step further. In Armada 1.1 and mods using it there are block surrounding of every station. I want to make this go further where it isn't a block, but closer to a tight fit. I want to be able to see ships flying just above the Outposts platforms, or small scouts being able to fly through empty shipyards. To me if FO can go to that, the possibilities arew endless. I'd also want to be able to build turrets only 150 meters above those Platforms of the oupost, or have a turret places almost perfectly centered below the Mining Dock. To me bringing a game to that level is making it just as realistic as the show.

I like being able to stack my stations, the closer the better. Plus I'd like to bring back the 3D space flight. That always made the game more interesting than 2D flight. Ahh, just imagining the game just makes me feel like I'm in it... plus we could also have other nice things in there. We could bring back the planets, except we'd have them scaled up to a more realistic size. We'd have moving atmospheres on the planets like clouds that countinuously twist and change. Plus we could have map sizes scaled up to confensate for all of the scaled up everything. Plus we'd have ships scaled properly in comparison with the show's scales. The ships and stations would have their polies increased and have enhanced details to increase the game's quality. Plus we'd have more classes and variety available for the various races making the game more abundant and more realistic for play. We'd have the ships better equipped of weapons like their movie/show counterparts. Plus also expand the abilities and capacities of the ship to better fit their chassis and race configurations.

This is only a start, the Next Generation will probably be much more enhanced.

posted on June 14th, 2009, 8:57 pm

Firstly, I don't think you mean the "building thing". You mean the "hit/avoidance box", and yes, it would be good to make it so.

Secondly, to bring back the (certainly more visually interesting and fun) more 3D space, you'd first have to remedy the problems that caused it to be removed in the first place a la Armada 1.
Such things as being able to easily bypass enemy defenses by flying well over them.

I'm not sure there really is a solution. The A2 devs were silly to try to make it 3D if all they were going to do was expand it into the mockery of 3D that is the "post box" shape - yes stuff can go up and down, but the fact that a universal "up" and "down" existed at all was already wrong.

If such a thing were possible within (or even outiside of, seeing as we're talking future versions in which there is always the possibility of trancending) the A2 engine, then I'd very much like to see a [i]truly[i] 3D environment. That would be incredible/insane/epic.

posted on June 14th, 2009, 9:33 pm

Agreed Exodus


I'd love a truly 3D environment; dunno when something like that can be built and implemented appropriately though... 

posted on June 14th, 2009, 9:59 pm

I like the idea. I always wanted that FO would be more like Homeworld 2. But... is it possible?

posted on June 14th, 2009, 10:00 pm

I wonder if some ST: Legacy coding could be used for that.  I know they use .odfs too, so there must be some similarity's.

posted on June 15th, 2009, 1:30 am

That is a tall order.  I will try to break it down as best I can...

I'd also want to be able to build turrets only 150 meters above those Platforms of the oupost, or have a turret places almost perfectly centered below the Mining Dock. To me bringing a game to that level is making it just as realistic as the show.

I like being able to stack my stations, the closer the better. Plus I'd like to bring back the 3D space flight. That always made the game more interesting than 2D flight. Ahh, just imagining the game just makes me feel like I'm in it... plus we could also have other nice things in there.

That goes against one of the very basic purposes of FO, to eliminate the 3d-ish 2d of Armada II.  For example, even though the asteroid belts in A2 blocked movement above and below it, it was only such and such a height.  Why can't you just fly past the stupid thing?

We could bring back the planets, except we'd have them scaled up to a more realistic size. We'd have moving atmospheres on the planets like clouds that countinuously twist and change. Plus we could have map sizes scaled up to confensate for all of the scaled up everything.

That to me sounds nearly impossible for the A2 engine.  This is a mod after all.  To design such an environment and expect the engine to handle it doesn't sound possible to me.

Plus we'd have ships scaled properly in comparison with the show's scales.

If you had a Dominion dreadnought the same size as those featured in the DS9 episode Valiant, you'd murder the gameplay.  Imagine attempting to coordinate a fleet against one of those properly scaled.  When it moves, it would cross the map in seconds, and when it fires, it would hit every spot from one place.

The ships and stations would have their polies increased and have enhanced details to increase the game's quality.

It's unrealistic for this mod team to go back and redesign every single model for the sake of making it look better.  It isn't as simple as adding more polies either.  You'd have to start back on square one, essentially.

Plus we'd have more classes and variety available for the various races making the game more abundant and more realistic for play.

I have no qualms with this statement.  More variety would be funner.

We'd have the ships better equipped of weapons like their movie/show counterparts. Plus also expand the abilities and capacities of the ship to better fit their chassis and race configurations.

Fine with me too.

posted on June 15th, 2009, 1:35 am

"'We could bring back the planets, except we'd have them scaled up to a more realistic size. We'd have moving atmospheres on the planets like clouds that countinuously twist and change. Plus we could have map sizes scaled up to confensate for all of the scaled up everything.'

That to me sounds nearly impossible for the A2 engine.  This is a mod after all.  To design such an environment and expect the engine to handle it doesn't sound possible to me."

Actually, this has been done in other mods.  Atmospheres are possible with object animation.  You just need to find modelers that still know how to do it, like the FO team.

posted on June 15th, 2009, 2:17 am

I thought some of the planets do have moving atmospheres 

posted on June 15th, 2009, 2:18 am

I do believe you are correct, I just wasn't sure if he new that, so I gave a different example.

posted on June 15th, 2009, 8:18 am

More variety would be funner.

Hell yes! Even if it was pretty much cosmetic, it would be great to have really different avatars... But it's something that would have to happen slowly, as there would be new models involved :/

I like the idea. I always wanted that FO would be more like Homeworld 2. But... is it possible?

Homeworld 2 was better than A2's "3D-ness", but it wasn't really that much different. No - I mean 3D as it is in space, where there is no "right way up". Whichever direction you're fight in could be seen as the "plane" (like the grid level of A2), but at any one moment you could also be defending from enemies coming in at 90° to this plane, or from any other angle. It would be insane
There'd have to be an innovative way to implement starting locations though! XD

posted on June 16th, 2009, 1:38 am

In order to do most of that stuff FO would have to swich to a new engine/ create a new one.

posted on June 16th, 2009, 4:40 am

As i recall there was a nice long discussion in another thread about that and the developer's stance is that they do not want to switch to a new engine.

posted on June 16th, 2009, 8:02 am

and we dont wna tot have 3D environment. it sounds cool in the first place, but it is much do complicated to work with it. lets take a spherical map for example. how should you do a mini map. it would only fix 2 dimensions. its much to irritating. smae goes for unit placement and the like.

Take a look at homeworld. it has complete real 3D placement of vessels, but maps for homeworld end up being fixed on a 2D plane, and the few real 3D maps are no fun to play, as its to complicated. You can do cool stuff with it and its nice for simulations or games like bridge commander, but not for a combat oriented real time strategy game, as Fleet Operations is.

Oh and look at Star Trek, there isn't much 3D movement there, too

posted on June 16th, 2009, 1:22 pm

I've seen in 1st person 3D sci-fi games have a 3-Dimensional Map cube thing. And the Map spins as your pitch and yaw change. We could have the Map system revised similar to that. You have your horizontal map, then you have a vertical map going front and back and another vertical map going side to side. So it would act as a system for triangulating positions.

posted on June 16th, 2009, 2:57 pm

Have fun coding it into the current game engine. I'm fairly sure FO would only work like that if it was made from the ground-up, without the AII engine.